Safety question regarding Methanol injection and a BOV

[Jer]

I'm adding a blow off valve and one of my concerns is that I'll be venting to atmosphere, right above the turbo/exhaust ('92 GMC Typhoon) and am running Razor's meth kit. It will be mounted about a foot upstream from the throttle body with the methanol nozzle between it and the TB (the nozzle is closer to the BOV).

What are the chances of methanol being in the unused intake charge when it vents? If so, is there enough to cause concern for fire? Also, the engine buy in the truck is VERY clean and I don't want methanol sitting on the paint over time either.

Does anyone have any input on this or am I being overly paranoid? Thanks for the help.

 

[Razor]

I had a customer with an EVO last weekend have his car on the dyno for 6 hours. They made 50 pulls.. his nozzle was "before" the BOV.. and everytime they let of the it would shoot methanol on the motor.. no fires.. no issues.

This was an extreme condition to which I wouldnt recommend. He has since changed his nozzle location to after the BOV and no more spray issues.

I think he has the stock turbo pump gas record.. 407 WHP for an EVO. He ended up making close to 20 WHP over running C16.

To answer the question I guess depends on close the BOV is to the nozzle. Typically its not a problem since air is going torwards the TB.

 

[Jer]

Originally posted by Razor
I had a customer with an EVO last weekend have his car on the dyno for 6 hours. They made 50 pulls.. his nozzle was "before" the BOV.. and everytime they let of the it would shoot methanol on the motor.. no fires.. no issues.

This was an extreme condition to which I wouldnt recommend. He has since changed his nozzle location to after the BOV and no more spray issues.

I think he has the stock turbo pump gas record.. 407 WHP for an EVO. He ended up making close to 20 WHP over running C16.

To answer the question I guess depends on close the BOV is to the nozzle. Typically its not a problem since air is going torwards the TB.

Okay, the nozzle is in an aluminum elbow and all the pipes before are steel as is my BOV flange. My buddy has a MIG so the plan was before the nozzle, after the FMIC so as long as I do this, I should be fine... right?

I ask because I would prefer having it near the top of the engine for access to adjust it for vacuum at idle and close proximity of vacuum source. I do have the option to mount it under the truck where the pipe leaves the FMIC but this would make for a PITA to adjust and route a vacuum line, but it could then be vented straight down to avoid any possible issues. As long as you say it'll be fine then I would prefer the first option.

 

[Razor]

Once you set your BOV its really a done deal.

I would suggest as far away from the nozzle as possible. And if it vents to the ground even better. That way there is absolutely zero issues.

Here's another view.. your seal in the turbo lets go.. now the turbo is pushing oil.. when you vent.. oil will shoot out of the BOV. Oil is flammable..

Anything less, is a compromise. Let alone you now have the opportunitty to get it done correctly, albeit a little more hassle.

Would suck to weld it close to the nozzle then have some residual spray cuase spotting on surfaces near it.

HTH

 

[2QUIK6]

Not to mention that methanol will destroy paint quickly.
Spilled a tin bit on the fender, wiped off immediately and now theres slight discoloration there.

 

[Jer]

Originally posted by 2QUIK6
Not to mention that methanol will destroy paint quickly.
Spilled a tin bit on the fender, wiped off immediately and now theres slight discoloration there.

That was another large part of it. I knew that the chance if it igniting was slim to non but knew that this stuff is hell on paint and the under-hood on this thing is cherry and I want to keep it that way.

 

[FlaBoy]

Originally posted by Jer
I knew that the chance if it igniting was slim to non

While I don't have much experience with alky injection systems (yet... its on my eventual list of mods for my new hot-air) I DO have a lot of experience with alcohol vapors. I built and operate a fractionating-column reflux 'still to make 95-98% pure ethanol.... which I if course NEVER even consider cutting down and drinking.... cuz that would be ILLEGAL.... (heh heh heh). While most of my experience is with ethanol (except for the first few ounces out of each batch, which are mostly methanol and fusel oils) I would imagine meth and eth behave pretty similarly, and I know that hot ethanol vapors are VERY ignitable, and can be pretty dangerous. while I defer to the judgement of the alky-injection gurus on the safety issue in this situation (BOV underhood, etc.) make sure not to underestimate the potential danger of this stuff... i ahd one clsoe call with my first 'still, and thats all i needed.

Oh, and if anyone is interested in being able to make your own 98% pure ethanol in your back yard for dirt cheap (once you have the still, a few packets of yeast and a few pounds of sugar will make you gallons and gallons of end-product eth) let me know, I'd be glad to share my knowledge... and if you go through the trouble of getting an Alcohol fuel Permit from teh Feds, its even legal, so long as you promise not to drink any of the products (who, me??) It easy and fun, and probably would save you money if youre running eth. anyways.

 

[2QUIK6]

There you go Julio.... Moonshine injection!! Maybe Moonshine Control Systems I like it.
Good info BTW Corey

 

[salvageV6]

I thought you could legally make a certain amount per year for personal consumption?

As for the car, it's not for fueling on my car just detonation reduction, so screw the Feds.

 

[Jer]

I read a few posts where Julio and others stated that it's ignition level is pretty high.

 

[salvageV6]

Taking peoples word for something is a good way to burn your car to the ground.

Here's the MSDS:

Draw your own conclusions.

http://www.southernchemical.com/downloads/msds.pdf

You would probably be very safe with it as long as you don't fuel the car like the Cart and Indy guys used to.

 

[Jer]

That's why I asked. I already mounted the flange on a spot if the IC pipe that's at the bottom of the truck and pointed the outlet towards the ground. I wasn't so concerned with how flammable the methanol was but more with what the chances of some coming out when the BOV opens and the thread took a turn. After more research it sounds like the BOV more or less vents all the air coming from the turbo up to the point of the BOV and the air after it doesn't move much in either direction so I might have been alright. I guess safety first and now I don't have to wonder or worry.

 

[FlaBoy]

Originally posted by salvageV6
I thought you could legally make a certain amount per year for personal consumption?

As for the car, it's not for fueling on my car just detonation reduction, so screw the Feds.

no, unfortunately thats not true. Its perfectly legal to make beer and wine and create alcohol through fermentation in your home. and you can legally make a high quality still and use it to distill water and concentrate flavors/scents from plants into essential oils. But if you put that beer/wine (or mash for whisky, etc.) into the still, and merely concentrate the alcohol you allready amde, your violating a federal law. the reality is the only real moonshiners the feds care about are the big guys who are selling/distributing it. The likelyhood is that I'll never ge tin any trouble for it, but techincally its illegal. If you wanted to be legit, you can apply for an alchol fuel permit, which allows you distill ethyl alcohol, but you have to promise to denature it with an approved denaturing agent (making it un-drinkable).



As far as the igniteability of ethanol vapor, i dont know the flash point of it, but when i ahd my close call, it was from contact with open flame (my boilers burner) so probably just a hot turbo/maniford/header might not be enough to light it off... but when when thts stuff goes up, it goes up with a vengance

 

[FlaBoy]

Originally posted by salvageV6
I thought you could legally make a certain amount per year for personal consumption?

As for the car, it's not for fueling on my car just detonation reduction, so screw the Feds.

no, unfortunately thats not true. Its perfectly legal to make beer and wine and create alcohol through fermentation in your home. and you can legally make a high quality still and use it to distill water and concentrate flavors/scents from plants into essential oils. But if you put that beer/wine (or mash for whisky, etc.) into the still, and merely concentrate the alcohol you allready amde, your violating a federal law. the reality is the only real moonshiners the feds care about are the big guys who are selling/distributing it. The likelyhood is that I'll never ge tin any trouble for it, but techincally its illegal. If you wanted to be legit, you can apply for an alchol fuel permit, which allows you distill ethyl alcohol, but you have to promise to denature it with an approved denaturing agent (making it un-drinkable).



As far as the igniteability of ethanol vapor, i dont know the flash point of it, but when i ahd my close call, it was from contact with open flame (my boilers burner) so probably just a hot turbo/maniford/header might not be enough to light it off... but when when thts stuff goes up, it goes up with a vengance

 

[HEMI T04]

BOV safety

Im setting up an alcohol injection system with the similar BOV safety concerns. Im wondering why no one has dicussed using a plumb back blow off valve to recirculate the expelled BOV air into the air filter, thats what i was planning on doing.. IS there any problems with recurculating the alcohol vapours?

 

[Jer]

Re: BOV safety

Originally posted by HEMI T04
Im setting up an alcohol injection system with the similar BOV safety concerns. Im wondering why no one has dicussed using a plumb back blow off valve to recirculate the expelled BOV air into the air filter, thats what i was planning on doing.. IS there any problems with recurculating the alcohol vapours?

For my use this would be an extreme inconvenience. Not to mention that the extra methanol could pool in the bottom of an intercooler. Not likely since it evaporates so quickly but something to consider.

 

[qwiketz]

alot of the people that I know that were concerned connected a tube to the output of their greddy s type bov and pointed downward out of the engine compartment toward the ground.