S2 Heads/Int/IC/Headers Q's?

[stage II TR]

Hey Guys,


want to intro my self and ask some Q's please.


My name is Peter Humblias and I have a Stage II TR w/M & A heads, ATR single turbo headers, ATR DP, T70 turbo, Racegate, PTE FMIC, and stock intake on my 274 ci Stage II block car. I'm currently shopping for Stage II heads, int, headers, etc. I plan to buy all my parts in next yr or so, and convert to S2 top end and TT's when I freshen the motor. If you can, please ans these Q's:

1. What is considered good cfm flow #'s (int and exh) for a set of stage II heads and int? at what lift? I ask b/c I see ALOT of s2 heads for sale and I'm tryin evaluate whats a good head and a good price

2. How big a valve can you run in a Stage II head?

3. whats a good flow # for a S2 int?

4. Do sheet metal ints like a Hogan make a big diff in power over say a S2 int? My Et goal is 9.0's and still street driveable.

5. Are ATR TT headers any good? worth the $$? Any pros/cons/things watch out for?

6. Who makes the best TT FMIC? Can I just use my PTE FMIC w/Y elbow?


any other input would be very helpful. I've been lurkin in bkgd for some time now learnin as much as possible before I post.

If anybody cares, I'm NOT a turbo newbie. I have a 10 Sec Syclone (1 of less than 5 in the 10's on stock block/crank/tranny)

Thanks in advance and I look forward to helping/meeting all of you.

 

[stage II TR]

Ok guys,

20 views so far and nobody has any info? C'mon!!


I thought this forum was for people to SHARE Stage II info?

I hope some of you guys can help me. Thanks


Peter

 

[turbobitt]

My heads are ported and flow 310 on the intake and 269 on the exhaust. I am using a converted stage II carb intake and feel it will be good down to the 8's. Sheetmetal intakes are expensive and not really needed but do look good.

 

[turbodave231]

I have a pair of S2 aluminum heads done by Baker that flow 336 cfm on the intakes and 274cfm exh @28"H2O. Valve sizes are: 2.02 int and 1.60 exh.

Don't know how they run........yet!

DR

 

[JayC]

Ive seen the carb intakes used down to high 7s, low 8s. Personally for my own car I decided to go with a sheetmetal intake from Charged Air Systems and use a Ford 90mm throttle body. Tony told me a couple of days ago that he has 5 Stage 2 sheetmetal intakes ready to ship in various configurations so you might want to check with him if you're interested in an affordable sheetmetal intake.

For headers, the ATR pieces are pretty nice. I do think that the primarys are a bit big on those headers but again, they are race proven pieces and have gone in the 7s on Kent's car and low 8s on many other people's cars. I would have liked to see them with 1 11/16th primarys personally but from what I understand that's an odd tubing size in stainless. For the money and availability, though, they're the way to go for twins.

As far as the intercooler, the Charged Air unit works pretty well and Precision has a twin turbo unit also. You could do what you're talking about but I think you're shorting yourself in the intercooler department doing that.

 

[Awesome T]

Pete, How close have you come to your goals with the M&A heads? I ask because I want high 9's on a street car, and I was originally going to go with S2 heads and 4-bbl intake. But, the thought of having to mess with fiberglass and making changes to heater core to run the S2 heads sent me looking for M&A's to make it more of a drop-in application.
I asked a lot of questions a while back on heads and CFMs, and the only person who really knew these numbers was Billy Anderson in MD. You might want to give him a shout to get some accurate numbers. From what I remember, S2s stock came in different flows, from 265 to 285 CFM. Ported, the sky is the limit, but have heard/read they can approach 400 CFM. I met Ski briefly in Bristol '99 (I think it was Bristol), and he told me his Ruggles M&A's were flowing around 300 CFM. Ported M&As which I found and plan to run should flow in the 240-250 CFM intake range. I think this should work for me, but I've only bench raced this combo, and not actually run it like you have, and would really like to hear your experiences. Thanks. HTH.

 

[KendallF]

Re: Re: S2 Heads/Int/IC/Headers Q's?

Originally posted by stage II TR
Ok guys,

20 views so far and nobody has any info? C'mon!!


I thought this forum was for people to SHARE Stage II info?

I hope some of you guys can help me. Thanks


Peter

Keep in mind that asking for help and then nagging for answers is not usually highly effective; nobody's getting paid here.

Having said that, I'll try and hit a few of your questions..

1) You've already gotten some good flow #s for the S2s.

2) Valve size: reasonably, 2.08/1.625 though I've heard of bigger.

3) I haven't seen flow #s for one, but all of the carb ones you'll see have been match ported (usually very well done) to the heads; flow #s should be similar. Of course on sheet metal, it had better flow well for the $...

4,5, and 6) Jay's given you good input from a guy who's been there. I would add that if you're headed for 9.0s, you need more intercooler (from a flow restriction standpoint, at least). Joe Lubrant found his PT&E core to be a restriction at the 9.50 mark or so, I believe, and went to a double core.

Good luck with your project. If you want to see some pictures of a converted 4 bbl intake w/the elbow for a 90mm TB, as well as one of CAS's V3 twin intercoolers, see the link in my signature.

 

[stage II TR]

Re: Re: Re: S2 Heads/Int/IC/Headers Q's?

Hey Guys,

just wanted say thanks to you all.

Kendall- GREAT pixs..looks like you got a monster comin together....what size turbo is that?

I live the CAS IC too...

Awesome T- I'm not sure I can give you good advice as I bout my TR w/M & A heads and te-62!!! TINY turbo. I ran it twice lasty year and went low 11's on low boost. From what I've seen, you can go 10.0-high 9's w/M & A's and an at least T76 turbo. I say try it. I think you can do it.

Jay C- Thanks for the hard info. I appreciate it. I'm lookin into the CAS int

turbo bitt and turbo dave- Thanks for sharin your flow #'s.

I guess my only remaining Q is what is the LEAST amt flow I should be lookin for outta Stage II heads if I wanna go solid 9.0's/high 8's?

TIA

 

[texasturbo]

Any stage II head that flows at least 320 on the intake and 270 on the exhaust should be a good starting point. Finding a good set that flows very linear and within 15% of the intake and exhaust should also be considered. Just my thought....

 

[J. Lubrant]

Originally posted by Awesome T
Pete, ........................ I met Ski briefly in Bristol '99 (I think it was Bristol), and he told me his Ruggles M&A's were flowing around 300 CFM.
Ported M&As which I found and plan to run should flow in the 240-250 CFM intake range. I think this should work for me, but I've only bench raced this combo, and not actually run it like you have, and would really like to hear your experiences. Thanks. HTH.

Ski told you his M & A heads were flowing around 300 C.F.M. He must have had his fingers crossed when he told you that one?

Don't think there is any M & A head capable of those numbers, nor any Champion GN-1's

I would believe flow #'s in the 220-250 CFM range, with the Champions being capable of the Highest flow numbers of the Non-Stage II type Heads.

Just wanted to put my .02 cents in about flow #'s on the M&A and Champion type heads. Of course I'm talking fully prepped type, not out of the box.

 

[re-evaluating]

Ski's heads

Hey Joe
The set of M&A's that Ski has are the set that Ruggles completely remade for Delisandro's (sp?) car there is more welding rod in those heads than the original casting.. I can't say first hand that they flow those numbers but they have 3 bolt header flanges and the ports are huge.... I doubt Ski lied about the numbers just want you to know they aren't your average M&A heads... Dave

 

[J. Lubrant]

Re: Ski's heads

Originally posted by re-evaluating
Hey Joe
The set of M&A's that Ski has are the set that Ruggles completely remade for Delisandro's (sp?) car there is more welding rod in those heads than the original casting.. I can't say first hand that they flow those numbers but they have 3 bolt header flanges and the ports are huge.... I doubt Ski lied about the numbers just want you to know they aren't your average M&A heads... Dave

Hi Dave!

How the H_ll are you?

You know me, skeptical Joe

Hmm, I remember at the Mid-West Challenge at Morrocco In. ,when Ski & John from BG was with him. I think Ski was running 9 something carrying the wheels 60ft down the track. I asked pleasantly: How much does the car weigh, and the response was 3600#+! Maybe it was John that responded
I casually looked at the front of the car...lets see Carbon Fiber Hood, Fiberglass fenders, bumpers, & possibly deck-lid. My response was not to many places a Magnet would stick on this car?? Must have had a ton of Iron Ore in the trunk I guess

I would never say Ski was intentionally lieing, I just feel no matter what-- those numbers are very far fetched, I would have to see it to believe it. Your right if absolutely true that would be super numbers. Maybe they needed 3-bolt flanges on the headers to help keep the heads together

I only have good things to say about Ski, Nice Guy, Good Competitor, and has a very fast car nuff said.

Hope things are still going well for you?
Say Hi to Terry H. for me if you see him. I need to get a hold of him for a 3.5" dp for my 88 if he's still making them?

Later,

 

[EightSecV6]

Those heads were done at Ruggles a long tome ago, I talked to David Manning when he worked at Ruggles, he sid those heads were very similar to S2 heads in port design and volume, that was in 1995 or so, I know those heads cost Jimmy D. $6K for the port work

 

[re-evaluating]

Ski's car

Hey Joe
I am good.. I am with you on being skeptical most of the time I just shake my head when I read stuff like that. I have known Ski a long time and he might jack you about the car weight but he is a stand up guy and betting the numbers are there. When I saw them I couldn't believe that any M&A could be modified like that..
One thing you forgot, those doors were Carbon Fiber tooooo.

We can get you that 3 1/2 pipe no problem.. I will be seeing him tomorrow and I will let him know.

I need to get with you about the new TSM car I am putting together too. Well have a good one.. Dave

 

[Awesome T]

Pete, When I initially read your post, I thought you were looking for 9.9's - my bad.
Regarding Ski's heads and what he told me, he (or was it Ruggles himself - I did manage to speak to him before he retired) also mentioned that his were one of only two sets that Ruggles ever did like that, with untold hours in them. So, unless I know a guy is an out and out liar, or has a bad reputation, I tend to believe what they tell me if it doesn't seem too improbable.
Pete, best of luck with your car.

 

[EightSecV6]

Ted Wayman (M&A castings) owned the other heads, Ruggles built his and Jim D's engines at the same time.