I have torn my 109 down more from head gasket failures than the dreaded #3 lobe failure. The same flat tappet has been in the car since 04. If I wanted to build a new full on race motor I would go roller not to last for another 15 years but to play with different lobes and springs. The flat tappet outran and outlasted many roller set ups.
Roller cam or stock ?
- Thread starter GregGnTn
- Start date
black owned
black pride
- Joined
- Jun 15, 2008
What were the specs on the roller?Willing to sale?
gunzandgearz
gearzandgunz
- Joined
- Aug 24, 2015
I will say this not that I'm against the roller cams by no means but it's absolute BS that you cannot run a flat tappet cam in this day and age they make special oils that you can put in your car that will work and the thing will live for a hundred thousand miles me personally I run roller but in saying that, I have run plenty of flat tappets and I have built engines for customers that have chosen the flat tappet if you're kind of tight on money put the money in the cylinder heads and turbo and run a flat tappet cam that's where all the power is made, a roller cam will only make about 12 to 15 more horsepower , and cost you $1,000 more then the flat tappet that is everything else being equal IE proper cam timing but the heads and cam will by far surpass running a roller, just my two cents
The fact that special oils exist is the first flag. If the hard parts were still as good as they were 15~20 years ago those crutches wouldn't be marketable today.
Back when all lifters had hard feet, cam blanks were all high quality, and ramp speeds weren't maxed out (that require even stiffer springs than normal), all you needed was conventional oil (of that day). Break it in, change the oil/filter, and you were good to go.
On some engines it kinda worth it to cheap out and go flat tappet. But on a Turbo Buick, there's just too much expensive shit that gets ruined when a lobe goes south. Not to mention heads don't play as much of a role on a turbo engine like they do in N/A. I'd rather have a solid foundation with the option of upgrading the heads later. Instead of having some nice heads bolted to a blown engine, smoked turbo, and a crudded up oil cooler.
What's funny is I've noticed two major trends on the flat .vs roller threads that always seem to crop up....
First is when a newb asks about it, normally that ask in a way that automatically disqualify them from getting away with a flat tappet. When I reply with a ''just get another check or two and go roller'', one or two people that know all the tricks to making one live will chime in with THEIR experiences and try to apply them to a person that's doing this alone (and usually taking the shortcuts that kills the odds of success).
That being said I can put a flat tappet cam in any engine I want and get away with it almost all of the time. Yet I will NOT build a Buick V6 with one unless I flat out don't give a crap about the build, the car it's going in, and the person that owns it.
And since that will never happen, I'll never slide a flat cam into a Turbo Regal. ....and I even have a stockpile of NOS hardened GM lifters.
Now there's just too much BS and steps that have to be done to use one of those POSs. I'd rather drink beer than have to change valve springs with the engine in the car.
Flat tappet cams belong in the Smithsonian not a performance engine.
Back when all lifters had hard feet, cam blanks were all high quality, and ramp speeds weren't maxed out (that require even stiffer springs than normal), all you needed was conventional oil (of that day). Break it in, change the oil/filter, and you were good to go.
On some engines it kinda worth it to cheap out and go flat tappet. But on a Turbo Buick, there's just too much expensive shit that gets ruined when a lobe goes south. Not to mention heads don't play as much of a role on a turbo engine like they do in N/A. I'd rather have a solid foundation with the option of upgrading the heads later. Instead of having some nice heads bolted to a blown engine, smoked turbo, and a crudded up oil cooler.
What's funny is I've noticed two major trends on the flat .vs roller threads that always seem to crop up....
First is when a newb asks about it, normally that ask in a way that automatically disqualify them from getting away with a flat tappet. When I reply with a ''just get another check or two and go roller'', one or two people that know all the tricks to making one live will chime in with THEIR experiences and try to apply them to a person that's doing this alone (and usually taking the shortcuts that kills the odds of success).
That being said I can put a flat tappet cam in any engine I want and get away with it almost all of the time. Yet I will NOT build a Buick V6 with one unless I flat out don't give a crap about the build, the car it's going in, and the person that owns it.
And since that will never happen, I'll never slide a flat cam into a Turbo Regal. ....and I even have a stockpile of NOS hardened GM lifters.
Now there's just too much BS and steps that have to be done to use one of those POSs. I'd rather drink beer than have to change valve springs with the engine in the car.
Flat tappet cams belong in the Smithsonian not a performance engine.
gunzandgearz
gearzandgunz
- Joined
- Aug 24, 2015
maybe I should restate that, they're not really special oils as it's the same oil they've been using in cars for the last 50 years only in the last 10 years or so they've gotten to where they're not putting the zinc and phosphorus in the oils because all modern cars run roller cams and not flat tappets,so the oils aren't exactly special just special because you have to search them out nowadays and while I will agree the metals aren't as good as they used to be it still can be done a lot of people do it I've done a bunch of the flat tappet bump sticks, just break them in properly and use the correct oil and now you can take that thousand dollars extra in your pocket and go buy some good cylinder heads, but again I will say if money is not an issue by the roller stuff
For the OP, the roller cam has way more pluses than a flat tappet. Go with the advice of your builder on the specs, bigger is not always better. Look at the combo as a whole, converter, cam, heads, turbo, etc.. and enjoy your car. If I was to build a new full on race motor I would install one too.
gunzandgearz
gearzandgunz
- Joined
- Aug 24, 2015
I would agree with that Ron if you got the cash go roller if you're scraping pennies together and still trying to go somewhat fast put a flat tappet bump stick in it and buy better heads it will make you and your wallet happy
208 roller, from comp, roller rockers, (which needed valve cover extensions)
just didn't want the hassle on this car, so went with 206/208 flat tappet hyd,
so glad, smooth, quiet, runs super hard,
sorry not for sale at this time,
Jerryl
Tall Unvaccinated Chinese Guy
- Joined
- Dec 14, 2004
I realize the OP already purchased but there are some assumptions made such as;
1-The user knows how to break in a FT cam and the cat will actually start on the first try.
2-The builder understands how to set up FT cam for the RPM and everything is confirmed.
3-The user will only run xx boost and XXX rpm.
Clearly, either work but to say go FT without understanding operation intent and variables, is just sharing ones experience and someone guessing.
And and roller will typically be more than 30 HP because it tolerates spring pressures for higher RPM@35 PSI boost.
1-The user knows how to break in a FT cam and the cat will actually start on the first try.
2-The builder understands how to set up FT cam for the RPM and everything is confirmed.
3-The user will only run xx boost and XXX rpm.
Clearly, either work but to say go FT without understanding operation intent and variables, is just sharing ones experience and someone guessing.
And and roller will typically be more than 30 HP because it tolerates spring pressures for higher RPM@35 PSI boost.
Buick Mark
Active Member
- Joined
- Sep 12, 2001
Roller with JOHNSON lifters
