Red's Hot Air....133 mph????

[HIPSI]

Let me begin by stating that I am not making accusations or trying to start a flame war. I've been doing a lot of research lately to find the best recipe to run 130mph through the 1/4. Oddly enough, most people who run those speeds have quite a bit of money, parts, and time invested in their ride. So, how is it that this guy can run those numbers with: self-ported iron heads w/ stock valves, SP 204/214 cam, 70mm P-trim turbo, stock MAF and a chip? I have never seen anyone question his times or make a statement about them. Although, several people refer to his car when talking about cams, intercoolers, etc. So, are those times a fluke or has this guy set the new benchmark for performance on a budget?

-BTW- I know that some people can get more out of their cars than others. My buddy, 1KWIK6, is running 10.8's at almost 125mph with a completely stock long block in a full weight '87 GN.

 

[Intercooler]

It isn't that hard to believe is it? He still had some good parts there. Turbo, IC, converter, injectors, cam, DP and a decent amount of boost. If you put similar pieces on and turn the wick up it will do the same.

 

[HIPSI]

Intercooler,

Like I said. No flames intended. Hard to believe?.... lets see what some of the 'big hitters' have to say. Let me also say that I emailed Red directly with some questions over a week ago with no response. I'm here to learn and I thought that this board is meant as a forum to share knowledge.

If it is so simple and easy to do, how many others have the same combination and run that kind of mph? Maybe his car is superlight?

<devils advocate mode> I guess the TSM guys and many others are foolish to invest in ported aluminum heads, roller cams, GTQ turbos and DFI? <devils advocate mode off\>

 

[GNVAIR]

Besides being a good tuner and working with Eric Marshall for chips, Red's car is a good example of a combo that works. The 2 things that IMHO that helped contribute to the high mph are the .82 Garrett turbine housing and the lock up torque convertor. I believe his best mph before the turbine housing swap was 127.
Red's hasnt been on here since before Christmas. He might just be really busy.

 

[HIPSI]

Originally posted by GNVAIR
The 2 things that IMHO that helped contribute to the high mph are the .82 Garrett turbine housing and the lock up torque convertor. I believe his best mph before the turbine housing swap was 127.

Do you know which housing he was running before the .82 Garrett? Any reason why he didn't use the PTE .82 housing instead?

edit: Why was my thread moved to the lounge? I'm trying to get technical information!

 

[Scott231]

Originally posted by HIPSI
I have never seen anyone question his times or make a statement about them.

Considering we all had the chance to watch the videos of his runs from that day, why question it?

I seem to recall he broke something right after the 133mph pass. Maybe that's cuz he didn't invest all the money in the fancy parts?

 

[GNVAIR]

Originally posted by HIPSI
Do you know which housing he was running before the .82 Garrett? Any reason why he didn't use the PTE .82 housing instead?

edit: Why was my thread moved to the lounge? I'm trying to get technical information!

I believe he was running a .63 Garret before.
If you have been on this board for awhile, then you know why Red's didnt use a PTE housing. Besides, many people claim the Garret housings spool faster. Problem is the supply of usable Garret cores is drying up from what I have heard.

 

[HIPSI]

I know that Red's had a bad experience using their PT54, but that wouldn't keep me from using their exhaust housing. You are right.... I spoke with John Craig this week and he confirmed that the Garrett housings are all but gone. In all honesty, I want to hear that his combination will work....it would be the cheapest and easiest for me to duplicate. I just wanted to see what others had to say first.

 

[turbosam6]

Sure, you can duplicate his combo easily, hell I duplicated a mid 10 second combo yet my car runs 11's. You might be able to buy the parts but the tune is where the time and energy have been spent, and you aren't going to duplicate that easily. BTW, a lot of the TSM cars are running a good deal faster than that now. I don't understand why you question his times when your buddy runs pretty quick with nowhere near the mods Reds has.

BTW, no one said it was simple, as you suggested. I promise when you bolt on the same parts he has you won't just go out and run his times. Its gonna take long hours at the track tuning, which is why my 10 second combo runs 11's, no track time.

 

[S2V6RACER]

I believe Dave B. ran some blistering low 10 second passes at 130 MPH on a hot air 85 block with ported iron heads. Maybe he can chime in on how well his low dollar combo worked out and how much his car weighed.

 

[Intercooler]

From what I can remember Red's was just using a Garrett .63 housing when he made the 133 pass. He broke the drum in the trans on that pass like alot of us do and at that point I think he swapped to the .82 housing but didn't get it back for more times. I wish I could have gotten my car up to kill before the head gasket started leaking. I have a similar build to what Red's had and went 117 MPH through Flowmasters with 21 degrees timing and 17 PSI. I think another 10 PSI would have put me somewhere in the 130's. Won't know for a while though.
On another note Jason Cramer also went 130's with a P-trim with .85 housing and flat tappet cam. His build is on GNTType.Org. Don't forget Geno! He also used a flat tappet to go 136 I believe. The 70 with a FM and supporting cast SHOULD go 130's IMO.

 

[ttypewe4jim]

Originally posted by GNVAIR
Besides being a good tuner and working with Eric Marshall for chips, Red's car is a good example of a combo that works. The 2 things that IMHO that helped contribute to the high mph are the .82 Garrett turbine housing and the lock up torque convertor. I believe his best mph before the turbine housing swap was 127.
Red's hasnt been on here since before Christmas. He might just be really busy.

As far as I know he is still in the process of moving (he does go on aim late at night usually me and him are the only buick people on lol) and let me say this......I will be contacting him for helping me bulid my motor/car because I know what he can do (keep in mind we have never meat each other yet ) but I still think that he is one of the best tuners/buliders on the east coast for as far as backyard mechanic type deals

 

[Bmason]

HIPSI:

My opinion is, it's really not as hard as you may think. It takes 2 things...time and attention to details. To me, the budget thing is subjective. Home ported heads are cheap at a glance, but it takes time...and time for a lot of us translates to money. Red is a good guy and I can assure you that Red did not just "THROW" stuff together and then ran 133mph. It took time for him to gain the knowledge, time to perform the work, and time tuning. The secret is...fix all of the BASIC STUFF first and pay attention to the details! Go back and read some old posts about what it takes to do certain things. The most recent post that immediately comes to mind for me, is a post where Dave England made a comment about the number of times (on and off) it took him to get his headers "right"...not just "close enough".

There are people that will say that they have "X" combo, but their car only runs "Y"! Possible reasons could be, they are not willing to turn it up and simply don't want to be on the edge, or there is a real problem. Sometimes something as small and insignificant (as some seem to think) as an exhaust leak before the turbo will simply kill your performance among other things. If I had a buck for every time I've heard "...my BLM's are way off and the car isn't running "X" time like it should..." and it's pointed out that they have an exhaust leak, and the response is "...it's just a small leak, it's not hurting anything" I'd be able to payoff my VISA from this past Christmas! Dang car could be ticking like a clock, but some people would rather look for some justification to spend more money on bigger parts, before fixing and developing a good base to start from or just simply don't get it!

I'll admit...my car wouldn't bust a grape until I fixed ALL of the little crap. I was too concerned with wanting the "part of the month" instead of concentrating on what was really important. True story - I had stock untouched heads (other than valve springs), unopened high mileage motor, TE60, MSD50's, Jay Carter chip, stock converter and a PTE-FM. I was at Cecil County and got lined up with Jack Cotton. Due to NOT wanting to be stomped too bad, I cranked the boost up. That was my first low 11-sec run and I thanked Jack for the inspiration! I later took that same unopened motor but with a T63E, a used FAST System and 65lbs Delphi's into the 10's at 128mph before snapping the input shaft in the still stock tranny, over revving and popping a HG. So, yes...it can be done on somewhat of a budget.

The only problem with the budget approach is, every time you launch the car hard on your quest for +130mph...you know in the back of your mind that something aft of the motor is going to fail sooner or later! It did for me, and there went my budget.

-Bobby

 

[FastRegalWE2]

Red has finished moving, hes just a busy guy with weird hours. and as MANY people have just described here, from what I have seen, Red DOES spend the time tuning and setting things up. He didnt bolt things on and go, I have the heads and intake he used when he went 133 on my car now and I can tell you he has some major time in those parts for port work. And they are nicely done as well. He lives 45 minutes from me. Talk to him for 30-40 minutes, you will see he knows what hes talking about and wont try to sell you on any magic parts. He is also a very helpful person, has answered more of my questions than I care to admit.

 

[straycat990]

Re: Re: Red's Hot Air....133 mph????

Originally posted by Scott231
Considering we all had the chance to watch the videos of his runs from that day, why question it?

I seem to recall he broke something right after the 133mph pass. Maybe that's cuz he didn't invest all the money in the fancy parts?

Yep he did brake the tranny. Intermediate shaft if I remember correctly.

]Originally posted by HIPSI So, are those times a fluke or has this guy set the new benchmark for performance on a budget?

HIPSI,
I would have to say he has set a new benchmark!!! Red's run was no fluke, it was the payoff of paying extreme attention to the fit and assemblely of an engine. In all your research have you not noticed that he was the first to use a speed pro 204/214. Also he was one of the first to install a power stroke I/C. Red is a very knowledgeble guy and if you really would like info or help you can email him at Eastern Virginia Turbo Buicks

I am sure he would be happy to help you out ... either with building an engine, porting, or just info on what it needs to accomplish your goals

David

 

[KEVINS]

I think it was all the booze Red drank b4 bed that allowed him the quality time while sleeping to think of the proper way to accomplish his goals

One thing that I have noticed is that these days the crowd is more interested in buying the next go-fast part instead of wringing out their existing combo. With the .net it's even easier to get caught up in purchasing parts for show-n-tell instead of leaving things alone. Red is one of those Gents that has spent time testing and tuning his car which paid off and now he gets plenty of sleep w/o booze

ks

 

[HIPSI]

The last few posts had some good information in them. Thank you. Also, I would like to refer to my earlier post where I said:

Originally posted by HIPSI
In all honesty, I want to hear that his combination will work....it would be the cheapest and easiest for me to duplicate. I just wanted to see what others had to say first.

So it seems like Red's does indeed know his stuff. I would love to have the opportunity to discuss my setup with him. At minimum, can someone confirm which exhaust housing he used to run 133mph?

Thanks.

 

[straycat990]

At minimum, can someone confirm which exhaust housing he used to run 133mph?

He used a Garrett .82 a/r for the 133 mph run, but here is a little food for thought. The car ran 127 with a Garrett .63 a/r and the first pass with the .82 the car ran 127. If I remember correctly that was the only change made and it did not change the MPH. I think it was turning the "wick" up a few more pounds that netted the 133 mph, but that is only a guess on my part. Maybe he will see this thread and pop in and replybut I doubt it. I think you would have better luck emailing his biz though. EVTB@cox.net

He is rather busy in the shop these days ...he has one of my engines there along with a couple cars.
Here is a link to a copy of his business card Eastern Virginia Turbo Buicks
You will find all his contact info on it.

Hope this helps.

 

[HIPSI]

David,

Thanks for the link! I really appreciate it. I was trying to reach him through a link that had 'redsbdassel' in it. Does that one not work?

Thanks again.

 

[straycat990]

Not sure if he still uses that email address or not. I always just call him or go by his house. He is a bit of a night owl like ttypewe4jim implied; so if you do decide to call him I would try him during the evening hours.