Question About Schwartz Performance G-Body Chassis

[ALBERTAN]

I've read the few threads available here about the new chassis available from Schwartz...they seem to be mostly favorable other than of course the price. I've been mulling over getting one since I first learned about them last year. I have a few things to price out up here still, but I was looking to get some info from those with more knowledge in the area. My questions are as follows:

1. For someone like myself that would have to get the frame professionally welded...boxing the frame, fixing poor factory welds, welding in braces, etc...and then powder coated, will that wind up costing considerably less than the Schwartz chassis? And will it be as good/not as good/better when all is said and done?
2. In a response to one of their chassis flex videos on YouTube, Dale Schwartz commented "If you add up the best bolt-ons to a stock chassis you're at $10k." True or False?
3. Early comments here when the chassis was first revealed indicated people thought it would be quite a bit heavier than stock. Schwartz consistently claims "119lbs less than stock, roller-to-roller (with identical wheels/tires)." Does anyone doubt this? Does anyone have any idea what sort of weight reduction is possible boxing a stock frame and adding aftermarket parts?
4. I had another question, but it eludes me at the moment.

 

[charlief1]

If you want to pay for the Schartz chassis go for it Dean, but it's only 119 LBS (US) lighter than the un-modified one. The big question is what you want to do with the car? Drag, road race, or show? If you want to drag it then you can build one cheaper, if you want a show car, you can build one cheaper, if you want to road race then get it and have some fun.

 

[ALBERTAN]

If you want to pay for the Schartz chassis go for it Dean, but it's only 119 LBS (US) lighter than the un-modified one.

Boxing the frame adds weight. Aftermarket control arms, etc. reduces weight. I'm not sure how the Schwartz chassis compares to a boxed frame with aftermarket suspension. I'd consider 119 lbs to be a significant reduction comparing apples to apples. I also like that the Schwartz chassis is ready for a minitub should I choose to go that route.

The big question is what you want to do with the car? Drag, road race, or show? If you want to drag it then you can build one cheaper, if you want a show car, you can build one cheaper, if you want to road race then get it and have some fun.

Myself and my friends are sort of done with the whole drag racing thing. Sitting in the pits all day to make two or three passes gets kinda old. Not saying I wouldn't take it to the track, but I'm not going to be looking to eke that last tenth out of my setup if I do. I have friends that autocross/road race, and could see myself doing that. But again, I don't foresee any plans to pursue that too actively as there aren't really any tracks around me. I pretty much want a nice Pro Touring GN that looks good, rides good, and can do everything reasonably well. This car is what I really would like instead of the fancy new cars my family are pushing me to get.

 

[scot w.]

Boxing the frame adds weight. Aftermarket control arms, etc. reduces weight. I'm not sure how the Schwartz chassis compares to a boxed frame with aftermarket suspension. I'd consider 119 lbs to be a significant reduction comparing apples to apples. I also like that the Schwartz chassis is ready for a minitub should I choose to go that route.



Myself and my friends are sort of done with the whole drag racing thing. Sitting in the pits all day to make two or three passes gets kinda old. Not saying I wouldn't take it to the track, but I'm not going to be looking to eke that last tenth out of my setup if I do. I have friends that autocross/road race, and could see myself doing that. But again, I don't foresee any plans to pursue that too actively as there aren't really any tracks around me. I pretty much want a nice Pro Touring GN that looks good, rides good, and can do everything reasonably well. This car is what I really would like instead of the fancy new cars my family are pushing me to get.

Keep in mind that the Schwartz chassis is designed to fit some Large tires and in order for you to capitalize on that there will have to be quite a bit of modifications to the inner wheel wells of your Regal like the mini tubs in the rear and work to the fronts.

For what it's worth, I have a close friend & customer who has a Monte Carlo SS and he can run the same times if not better than the Schwartz chassis monte carlo ss at autocross/ road race events and all he has is some good suspension upgrades and Ridetech adjustable coil over shocks... If you ask me, I don't think you would see much difference on a Autocross/road-course between the Schwartz chassis on a regal VS a good suspension like what is on my car except for the price mainly. Yes you get more torsional rigidity with the Schwartz chassis but at your level and what the car will be used for I think it would be a little Overkill..

We will see come September cause the guy with the Schwartz chassis MCSS should be at the RTTH pro-touring event that I am entered in so we will see how it compares.

 

[ravege]

"Our proprietary bolt-in design integrates original mounting points"
I'm guessing they mean body mounts only, cause no way any stock fitting suspension piece is going to work with it. I'm sure their stuff is nice but I like having options and not being locked into one vendor who may or may not be around a few years down the road.

 

[ALBERTAN]

Well, the cost factor is less of an issue for me than trying to find competent people to work on the car. The fact that the Schwartz chassis is more or less "bolt in" is very appealing to me to be honest. I'm aware of the need for the mini tub in the back. What sort of work is required on the inner fender wells in the front Scot? The front shock hoops appear to clear the MCSS's inner fenders with only maybe some minor trimming. I'd also be interested to see how you car compares to Dan's MCSS, in as much as the two cars are comparable with different drivers.

And on a little sidebar Scot, when is Joe Hinds book coming out? Thanks.

 

[ALBERTAN]

"Our proprietary bolt-in design integrates original mounting points"
I'm guessing they mean body mounts only, cause no way any stock fitting suspension piece is going to work with it. I'm sure their stuff is nice but I like having options and not being locked into one vendor who may or may not be around a few years down the road.

I'm not sure Schwartz is any more likely to disappear than any of the other aftermarket parts makers. I think getting the whole shebang from one vendor would get you a more dialed in chassis right off the bat. If that's the case, one should not need to swap out Schwartz' pieces for those from another manufacturer. Just my 2 cents.

 

[scot w.]

Well, the cost factor is less of an issue for me than trying to find competent people to work on the car. The fact that the Schwartz chassis is more or less "bolt in" is very appealing to me to be honest. I'm aware of the need for the mini tub in the back. What sort of work is required on the inner fender wells in the front Scot? The front shock hoops appear to clear the MCSS's inner fenders with only maybe some minor trimming. I'd also be interested to see how you car compares to Dan's MCSS, in as much as the two cars are comparable with different drivers.

And on a little sidebar Scot, when is Joe Hinds book coming out? Thanks.

Jeff Schwartz is a nice guy and his chassis' are top notch and if money isn't an object it certainly would be nice to have. It boils down to what you Like! I think either way you decide to go you will love how the car handles... Now a days when it comes to G-body suspensions there are many ways to skin the cat. Everything on my car is also a true "Bolt in" as far as suspension goes and everything can be done by yourself in your garage and the handling is fantastic! My goal was to have a car that handles great, stops great, and rides great without a harsh ride and I must say I have achieved that with this car. It boils down to your preference and your version of "Functional". When doing this stuff it's real easy to take the nice ride out of the car where it gets to be harsh but some like that, I don't prefer that myself.

The inner wheel wells on a MCSS are different than on our Regals and they can usually fit a 275/35-18 under them without modifications where ours would most likely have to be modded. The inner shock hoops I think would be fine with minor trimming, it's the fitment of the big tires where the modding would come into effect.

Joe Hinds book is already out and people here have received theirs..

We will be taking plenty of videos via GoPro at this event so we should have some good footage to post up, the downfall is going to be my 6yr old TOYO street tires! LOL

 

[turbodean87]

I seen a video on the net maybe you tube?of the amount of flex in the factory frame. If I had the money I would get the new one. I started out doing the pro touring setup on my car. Until I ran out of cash.


Posted from the TurboBuick.Com mobile app

 

[ALBERTAN]

I've seen some others on here poo poo those videos Schwartz posted on YouTube, claiming that they were misleading without the body mounted. I dunno...flex is flex. That factory frame, sitting on jackstands or not, is like a wet noodle. And I look at dsapper's pro-touring build and all the work he did on his frame and wonder if he came out ahead of just dropping a Schwartz chassis in place cost-wise. I actually think I recall him saying he would have gone that route in retrospect, but I am not wading through that thread again to confirm it.

In case anyone hasn't seen the videos, here's a slightly different one with Jeff demonstrating the difference in G Body flex at around the 2:30 mark.

 

[turbodean87]

Another option would be art Morrison frame. They built one for Holley performance. Their building a gran prix pro touring. I will be building my stock frame up myself over time when money and time allows.


Posted from the TurboBuick.Com mobile app

 

[dsapper]

ok, I'll throw in my two cents. I actually researched this specific question a bit with a few hours on the phone with 3 different chassis builders.

First off, art morrison is much nicer but requires a new floor pan and is expensive. Roadster shop will make you one, and is the highest quality and most expensive of the 3 and that requires a new floor. Schwartz doesnt need a new floor but isnt as good, rear suspension options are nothing special and the front is the same. Nothing wrong with schwartz but it doesn't bring alot extra to the table for the money you spend and the weight (which I don't doubt) isn't worthwhile. And powdercoating your paying for either way, I think they wanted 1k or 1500, I got it done locally for 500 on my frame.

Unless you can get an independent rear or a 3 link with c6 spindles/hubs its just not worth it, which leaves roadster shop and art morrison currently. A true full frame with those components is well over 20k.

A boxed and gusseted stock frame using afx spindles and upgraded control arms that has a notch is going to be just as good as a schwartz frame if not 1-200 pounds lighter and fit the same size wheels and tires.

So unless your willing to cut out the floor and go full on rockstar, stay with the stock frame... again just my opinion

 

[charlief1]

One thing that you might also consider is the engine set up. I'd call them and make sure that their chassis is set up for the Buick engine because I doubt that it is.

 

[ALBERTAN]

Thanks for the info Dave. It wasn't my intent to put words in your mouth...maybe it was something to do with the engine build I recall you saying you would have done differently.

I'm flying into Vegas for a few days to take one of my daughters back to school shopping. I'd love to see your car and pick your brain in person if you have any time free between Monday morning and Wednesday afternoon. You can PM me contact info or vice versa if you're free. Cheers.

 

[ALBERTAN]

One thing that you might also consider is the engine set up. I'd call them and make sure that their chassis is set up for the Buick engine because I doubt that it is.

Yup. They list LSX, S/BBC, and other as motor mount options. I'd have to confirm LC2 mounts are available.

 

[dsapper]

No I probably did say that. I'd rather go with an art Morrison but the floor thing made me think twice. Also the regret was mainly on not going LS (sacrilegious around here I know). Sure. I'm free all next week whenever and there is a possibility I'll have the car from the shop. Always willing to talk cars over a beer with a gear head. My number is 702-375-2786 (not that private of a person lol) just text me whenever

 

[ALBERTAN]

Will do. We're in Sunday around noon. Maybe I'll try you then.

 

[ALBERTAN]

Thanks Dave for taking the time to show me your car and introduce me to the shop owners working on your car. The conversation cleared a few things up for me regarding the chassis.