PT88 and ATR S2 headers

[GNSCOTT]

Well just wanted to give a heads up that they may not like each other, or the intake or the valve cover bolts or 90mm TB either. Some of you thinking of going this route may want to do a custom set of headers, or at least the passenger side. I had to have the header extended, had to weld on an extra flange and have it milled so you can get to the valve cover bolts, and used grade 8 locking bolts because they like to come loose. If I had it to do over, I think i would have had a custom set done, or worked with the TT headers (that i sent back to ATR) and done a ramms head.

Boy this is getting fun...I'll post pics of the motor next week when its finally done.

 

[turbolou]

Originally posted by GNSCOTT
Well just wanted to give a heads up that they may not like each other, or the intake or the valve cover bolts or 90mm TB either. Some of you thinking of going this route may want to do a custom set of headers, or at least the passenger side. I had to have the header extended, had to weld on an extra flange and have it milled so you can get to the valve cover bolts, and used grade 8 locking bolts because they like to come loose. If I had it to do over, I think i would have had a custom set done, or worked with the TT headers (that i sent back to ATR) and done a ramms head.

Boy this is getting fun...I'll post pics of the motor next week when its finally done.

Greetings Scott! Would you be the one to ask? I'm in the process of gathering parts for a 274 in. Stage 2 conversion.In a 87 regal for a customer. I have most of the details worked out in my head. I'm a little concerned about what I will run into as far as headers,ignition, down pipe etc. This will be a single turbo application mostly for street use. Reliability & driveability are important. Can this combo be run with a stock computer? Currently the car has a 3" TH Downpipe & PT66 & 83# inj. how will that work with the stage motor? I would like to be able to use it if poss. I may have a set of TT Dawson headers in good condition for sale as well as a new solid roller comp cam & lifters left over that I won't have any need for. Regards Lou

 

[Mac in SD]

Lou, Lou, Lou.... Why don't you call your buddy Kean. Whaddya think I've had running in my car for the last 10 months? I got ALL da' answers! S2 w/ ATR w/ 96-lb w/ stock ecm w/ T76 etc. etc. Runs excelente on el camino, tambien, amigo.

Sheesh!

 

[GNSCOTT]

Lou, there are alot more knowledgeable guys than me here, but if your looking for a streetable S2, forget the solid roller cam, and i'd use a champion or M&A head. Its just not worth the aggrivation of using a S2 head unless you are going to use that extra power.

 

[Mac in SD]

Originally posted by GNSCOTT
Lou, there are alot more knowledgeable guys than me here, but if your looking for a streetable S2, forget the solid roller cam, and i'd use a champion or M&A head. Its just not worth the aggrivation of using a S2 head unless you are going to use that extra power.

I understand your opinions on the S2 heads. I feel your pain. I agree somewhat... But... There's the "cool factor". There's also the "uncracked factor" and the "valveguides remain in the head - not in the cylinder factor". Just kidding!

And it's really not that much of a PITA after all. IMHO. But, if the TA heads turn out as good as I think they will, and they were available back when I built this thing, that's the way I'd have gone.

 

[GNSCOTT]

Mac, i think your right. It was more the headers than the head itself, but using a stock style head allows you to use stock style headers and there are virtually no problems there, especially compared to custom headers. With the difference, you can have enough to almost pay for a set of champion Irons, and on a street stage (say mid 10's) I think that would be all you need.

 

[STP]

It was difficult to keep a set of 8 bolt irons on my stage 2 276" engine. Too much cylinder pressure and not enough clamping force I think. At anything over 22psi my car would lift the heads and pressurize the cooling system. No detonation presentand running around 11:8 target A/F it ran a 10.84 on radials lifting the heads. I agree a nice set of irons are all a mid 10 sec street stage 2 needs, but keeping them on the block at anything over 20psi is another story...I initially tried the loc wire route. What a waste of money. Milled the reciever grooves out and ran a Cometic after that. Never had the chance to race the car with the Cometics. The irons came off and on went an out of the box set of GN1R's. Trying to make Bristol with it...

 

[NJTurbo]

Originally posted by STP
It was difficult to keep a set of 8 bolt irons on my stage 2 276" engine. Too much cylinder pressure and not enough clamping force I think. At anything over 22psi my car would lift the heads and pressurize the cooling system. No detonation presentand running around 11:8 target A/F it ran a 10.84 on radials lifting the heads. I agree a nice set of irons are all a mid 10 sec street stage 2 needs, but keeping them on the block at anything over 20psi is another story...I initially tried the loc wire route. What a waste of money. Milled the reciever grooves out and ran a Cometic after that. Never had the chance to race the car with the Cometics. The irons came off and on went an out of the box set of GN1R's. Trying to make Bristol with it...

Not to highjack thread. STP how are you making out as my combo is very close to yours. Shoot me a PM.

 

[turbolou]

Originally posted by GNSCOTT
Lou, there are alot more knowledgeable guys than me here, but if your looking for a streetable S2, forget the solid roller cam, and i'd use a champion or M&A head. Its just not worth the aggrivation of using a S2 head unless you are going to use that extra power.

Thanks for the reply! I intended to use a hydraulic roller, I too agree with useing as much stock configuration hardware as possible. But I have a complete stage off center motor that is for sale & thats what the customer wants. I really don't want to separate it.I think that the stage heads would be more reliable
then M&A or champion. I'm mainly concerned about the header issue & what are the options. I'm in research mode right now & seeking opinions.

 

[GNSCOTT]

Lou, If I had it to do again, I would buy the ATR drivers side header, and have the crossover and passenger side header custom made. I don't think there is anyone out there that makes them but ATR. Like I said earlier, you can weld another flange on to the ATR passenger side, that way you can get to the bottom valve cover bolts, so i think it was $60 for the flange, $50 to have it welded, $80 to have it milled, $20 for longer stage 8 locking header bolts, then you have to re do the front bracket because it won't line up with the bolt holes on the block because you added the flange, and even then the bolts are a bitch to get to. All is ok if you don't mind taking off or at least loosening the header to get to the valve cover bolts.

 

[JCotton]

Lou....

Hands down, no doubt, Champ alum heads and ATR headers, evrything is like workin on stock and 9.50 capable combo if wanted. Call me if you want some details

 

[Mac in SD]

Scott, why didn't you just get a set of center hole valve covers?

 

[GNSCOTT]

Mac, I didn't know about them so I just used the ones that came with the motor, also I was told that they still may catch the lip of the cover. I went by what I was told by RPE and a couple of other guys who have gone through it. I have never myself tried the center bolt valve covers, but i do know w/out the xtra flange, the headers would be touching the side of the valve cover.

 

[turbolou]

Originally posted by JCotton
Lou....

Hands down, no doubt, Champ alum heads and ATR headers, evrything is like workin on stock and 9.50 capable combo if wanted. Call me if you want some details

Good to hear from you Jack! I hear what your saying & totally agree & value your experience. The customer already has a production motor that I installed with ported champion heads that could be used. But he wants to keep that package complete. So he's bored with that now & wants a stage motor. I'm in the process of researching the pitfalls. I want to make this happen for him if feasible. But there again I'm concerned about Headers & brackets etc. He's picky & wants everything to work & its got to be perfect. So just remember this is Calif. & the folks here think a little differently LOL Regards Lou

 

[GNVAIR]

Hey Lou,
The best person IMHO to speak to with experience of Stage heads and street car combo would be Bill Anderson in Maryland.
Very knowledgeable guy and he usually posts on here often.
I am not sure why he has chimed in yet.