powermaster

[357456]

... and you shouldn't. If you have vacuum stored in the booster, it shouldn't go anywhere. Unless your check valve leaks bad......

Ok A few questions for you to ponder.

Was that newly introduced check valve designed and tested to be in a vacuum system with pressure? How about higher, excessive pressure than that of the stock TR?
The rapid succesion of vaccum and boost in our engines is quite the stress test on a check valve's plastic and rubber.
How about the plastic and rubber? Asian aftermarket check valve? (you never know these days) Also were the plastic and rubber materials used with the thought of being used with Ethanol blended fuels. How about with the stock TR pressure or higher pressure. How about race gas? How about the diaphragm used in the booster can is it designed for usage with the fuel it's seeing???

Someone said their new 2011 Turbo Regal has vacuum power brakes.....Parts designed to see some of my questioned environments above in usage. Will they give some sort of service life in an even higher pressure environment. ??? How much boost does the new Regal's system see ??? How much pressure do you think that new car's check valve will take???

Crisco remarked the Turbo TA's vacuum system. Is it just your normal run of the mill vacuum system? Sure? Look again. Try to find some of those parts. I've done it three times now. Do you think your retro vacuum system has those parts???
People that sell parts will say or do anything to put another dollar in their pocket.

Think about all the above and make YOUR OWN choice. Some of the varibles seen by those check valves have changed since 1987. Think of that every time you accelerate or crank up the boost. That's All!

 

[87GNSteve]

Someone said their new 2011 Turbo Regal has vacuum power brakes.....Parts designed to see some of my questioned environments above in usage. Will they give some sort of service life in an even higher pressure environment. ??? How much boost does the new Regal's system see ??? How much pressure do you think that new car's check valve will take???

2011 TR is 20 PSI boost. I do not have parts sources to see it the brake system differs from the NA car so its TBD.
You just have to face it the Powermaster was a terrible idea. I've been around these cars from the beginning they were giving the same problems with low miles on the cars, switch recalls, redesgined accumulators, massive leaks, constant running pumps.
There is discussion of vacuum usage on the TTA, but is there a comprehension of why GM did it? How about Why not a Powermaster on the Typhoon and Syclones? Why not Powermaster ever again?
Your remedy to just change accumulators every two years must make the vendors gleam with happiness. People can convert to vacuum or Manual brakes for the cost of one accumulator if they do their own work and shop around.
As for me I'm HARDCORE I converted to manual.

 

[1quick6]

Think about all the above and make YOUR OWN choice. Some of the varibles seen by those check valves have changed since 1987. Think of that every time you accelerate or crank up the boost. That's All!

I did think about my choice and I went with hydroboost. My comment regarding the check valve's purpose was general in nature.

 

[357456]

2011 TR is 20 PSI boost. I do not have parts sources to see it the brake system differs from the NA car so its TBD.
You just have to face it the Powermaster was a terrible idea. I've been around these cars from the beginning they were giving the same problems with low miles on the cars, switch recalls, redesgined accumulators, massive leaks, constant running pumps.
There is discussion of vacuum usage on the TTA, but is there a comprehension of why GM did it? How about Why not a Powermaster on the Typhoon and Syclones? Why not Powermaster ever again?
Your remedy to just change accumulators every two years must make the vendors gleam with happiness. People can convert to vacuum or Manual brakes for the cost of one accumulator if they do their own work and shop around.
As for me I'm HARDCORE I converted to manual.

Yeah I bought my car new also in 1987. Once you know the system and there is no mystery. There is no terror involved. I've had all the problems. Not anymore. I know what to look for and what to do should a problem come up. Keeping the brake fluid clean seems to be a biggest problem for most people. I don't know why other than people being lazy or cheap.

I don't know why GM made those decisions you ask about. You would have to ask the guys working on those programs at the time to truly know. Cost of a system is always a big factor with GM.
Accumlators assisted systems are common in industry. There are a few systems that are used in foreign cars braking systems. Rolls and Bentley are the first to that come to my mind. There are others. GM went on to use accumulators in W cars brake systems. I remember that Rolls had one that was dealer rebuildable. The accumlator screwed apart and you replaced the rubber parts and refilled the sphere with nitrogen. It seems synthetic rubber that is brake fluid resistant through out the whole system would have been the best bet in the Powermaster. Would it have come in on GM's price line? Who knows?
As far as the TR's accumlators price. I can find them pretty cheap new.
In the two year service I'm suggesting it as peace of mind to those that worry about failure constantly in the system and don't know how it works.
Your manual conversion makes the most sense for those that have highly modified their cars. I've seen that done on many cars with no problems.
TR have certain areas that need more attension over your regular cars. The brakes are one of them. For as quick as the cars are that shouldn't come as a surprise to anyone. Powermaster or not I would still be vigilant over my car's brakes.

 

[need boost]

That is the good advice here. No matter what set up you go with keep an eye on it. Like I said though, one time nearly bending my steering wheel trying to stop before I ran off a 15 foot dropoff at the end of the road was enough for me to ditch the powerjunk set up and go to hydroboost. It it a perfect system? No as they all have parts that can fail but I have brake pressure you can only dream about with a powermaster from what I have seen so far ! Daniel

 

[augie1010]

Hi: had a fuse blow on my pm last week. I was driving home from having new bilsteins installed, got home and just as I entered the garage the dash light came on and the pedal got real hard. I almost hit the bench but saved it by a foot. At first i thought it was the accumulator, but the motor did not run, so I checked the fuse and it was blown. I have never changed this fuse since I got the car in Jan 1988, so I replaced it and it has not blown since. The day it blew, it was raining, ya I drive it in the rain sometimes, I had the lights on, wipers on, blower on, and of course the radio too. Was i drawing to much and it caused the pm fuse to blow, what the hell the fuse was only 24 years old! After reading D. Kirban's comments I will change the fluid and hope for the best. I also have a WORKING power antenna, is there anything I can do to prevent this from crapping out too?

Regards
David..87 GN

 

[GNRick]

If your antenna is 25 years old it will crap out in short order. The nylon weed wacker line inside of it will break. Just something to look forward to!

 

[INEEDAGN]

Ok A few questions for you to ponder.

Was that newly introduced check valve designed and tested to be in a vacuum system with pressure? How about higher, excessive pressure than that of the stock TR?

In my case, YES. The TTA had it's own part number for the check valve. I ordered that number when I converted. It was a noticeably different part than the check valve that came with my brand new, not remanned GM booster ( I did mine when new parts were still available). I played with both of them, using my own lungs and at one point careful modulation of a shop air gun. The TTA valve is a more reliable part from what i've seen of it.

My car has so far only seen pump gas and sub 20-psi pressure. But I bench tested that check valve with a LOT more than 20 psi and it held...

You make it sound like TTA, SY/TY, and turbo dodge guys should convert to something else. Try preaching that to any of them and see how far you get. The ratio of happy vacuum brake converters to those who later switched out their vac. brakes to something else is probably 100 to 1.

 

[357456]

You make it sound like TTA, SY/TY, and turbo dodge guys should convert to something else. Try preaching that to any of them and see how far you get. The ratio of happy vacuum brake converters to those who later switched out their vac. brakes to something else is probably 100 to 1.

I've read it a few times now. I don't know where your getting this from.?????? Maybe someone else can find it.

The TTA, SY/TY, and turbo Dodge guys are using a factory engineered system. Why would I want to "preach" anything to them? They have logic on their side. They aren't using someone's backyard vaccum kit, the "that's good enough" brand. The difference between you and me. I have respect for the engineers working at GM. I know they don't get paid for standing around. If they bring a new system to the marketplace. They put in the time testing it so it functions in every environment it will ever see. How do I know? I know quite a few of them. I find myself saying often to them. "Wow, You guys are still testing that out?"

I don't have access to your scientific study of "happy brake converters". Sounds interesting though.

I can't help it that deep down you might feel self conscious about your brakes in some way. Otherwise, Why would you post such a reply or read this thread?


I just found that I needed to (on my maintenance folder) and changed out the fluid on my car's Powermaster. And thought of this thread. (No I don't live on this site. I have other interests in life other than my now 24 year old car. If that is a problem. I'm Ok with that. )

 

[nickygn23]

I'm all for original but my Powermaster failed me twice. I HATE them. I made the move over to vacuum. Works great and I never looked back. I still have the powermaster in a box and everytime I walk by it in the garage I kick it. Makes me feel better. First pic is the conversion and the second is the dreaded PowerMaster.

P.S.

Dennis Kirban is a God. If he was a priest I would worship at his church.
Thank you Dennis for all your parts.

 

[nickygn23]

I made the move to vacuum and never looked back. Here's a picture of the conversion. I still have the powermaster in a box. I kick it everytime I go down to the garage. It makes me feel better. It failed me twice.

P.S.
Dennis Kirban is a God.
If he was a priest I would worship at his church.
Thanks for all the parts Dennis

 

[nickygn23]

Go vacuum. I did and I love it. Powermaster failed me twice.

 

[2QUIK6]

I guess I don't understand the issues stated above concerning check valve failure in vac brake conversions. There are hundreds of factory car models with forced induction applications that utilize vac brake setups. Just use a suitable check valve from one of those. Some of these run 30+ psi! GM didn't always do what was right nor did any other car maker, it's naive to believe so, there are a billion reasons the power aster has never been used again.

 

[Dennis Kirban]

Kirban comments on some of the above posting.

On the blown fuse I had that happen on one of my previous turbo Ts. Turned out it was a bad switch. Something you may want to check. As for power antennas we should have new reproductions that are correct looking in every way in the next 30 days or so. Believe it or not reason they have been reproduced is because it is the same one as a certain year Corvette. I would venture a guess their failure rate is almost as high as powermasters only saving grace is some of us including me have a fixed mast.

Not a simple 10 minute job to change it out.

As for powermasters versus vacuum.....that war will rage on and on. Bottom line is for the car to be original the powermaster is the only acceptable solution. Part of the problem is Buick never instructed customers to flush out their brake fluid every 2 years or so something german car manufacturers have preached for years. Fluid should be clear not look like Pepsi. I am sure years ago Corvette owners removed the early fuel injection systems rather than mess with them. Today look what those systems cost for say the 1958-1959 Corvettes.....not saying powermasters will approach those numbers only indicating other cars have similar weaknesses.

With cores in short supply even Cardone does not have any and your local Auto Zone can't help you much unless you gamble your unit up front. Years ago it was not a problem as cores were plentiful. I never started out to be in the brake business, but it has become a good bit of the trade. You would be wise to not have anyone stand in front of your turbo regal when applying the brakes.

I appreciate the complimentrs in the earlier post.....

I know from experience since I buy mostly used cars rather than take a hit on a new car...I always get every fluid flushed just makes good sense.

denniskirban@yahoo.com

On a side note we are closed this Friday and next Monday.

Merry Christmas

 

[357456]

And the same back to you Dennis