PICTURE.. what are my options on lowering my T?

[mydesigner]

Do you have any pics of your interior it looks awesome from the little i can see of it.

 

[bruce]

Originally posted by Donald McMullin

(1) Use B-spindle setup (like Bruce) which changes camber curve so tire leans in in bump creating more tire clearance. This setup has two downsides, (a) you have to make changes in tie rod connections to get bump steer corrected, (b) B-spindle pushes wheel hub out by about 1/2-inch so you need to change backspacing to have improve outside tire clearance and to minimize the scrub radius.

One caution regarding lowering the rear, do not lower the rear so much that the front mount for the rear arms is lower than the rear mount. This will not help the already pronounced problem of rear squat under load.
I have modified my rear instant center to add anti-squat and my 60-ft time have been reduced and my control using power has also improved (I do not use air bags). I have less power overstear coming out of a corner.

For the moment, I've just gone to the heavier spring rates to mask these problems.
Well, with the 12 front brakes, the stiff springs are useful in keeping the front spoiler off the ground.

Have you seen a decent way of curing the bump steer problem?. Heim joints are a no go in my book and the plate weld on idea using them is lacking, again IMO.

Whatdaya do on the rear?.

One other thing is leaving room for the rear calipers to clear GGGGGs

 

[PRSRIZD_V6]

What's wrong with heim joints? Their looks?

 

[BooBoo231cu]

I had drop spindles on my 87 T and it looked and handles great. I got the whole suspension done with it. I used the stock springs and all...but it bottomed out like crazy!!! I had them removed like a little over a month later cause in my area it just wasn't working out. I wouldn't suggest using drop spindles...but if anybody needs them I will sell them for $175.00. I paid over $300 somthing for them and used them for a short period of time. I wouldn't suggest using them. But if anybody is interested e-mail me at BooBoo231cu@hotmail .com. Thanks.
P.S. They are Bell-Tech 2" drop spindles...I think they also work on Chevy Blazers and like bodied vehicles.

 

[BooBoo231cu]

It looks like you have the Leir Seigler seats. Those are the rare ones as well. I have a pair that I bought that were in an 84' WH1. I have the power drivers seat. It is a very heavy seat...but you can make it so you really fit in it good. Also my lower seat slides out. It looks like yours is just like mine. Those are awsome seats!!

 

[bruce]

Originally posted by PRSRIZD_V6
What's wrong with heim joints? Their looks?

They get sloppy, and there is no compensating for that, so the streering wheel gets a loose spot in it. It also takes a fairly large one to really be robust enough for street use.

 

[PRSRIZD_V6]

I've never used them on the street, but a tuthill 5/8" rod end is plenty strong enough for oval racing and I've never replaced one due to wear (sloppiness). I would also have to say they see much higher loads than would a street car. Not to mention years ago when OE tierods were used we replaced them about once a month, hence a rule change was made to heim-joints for safety and ultimately cost. Just MHO.

If you were using the pretty Aluminum ones that Global West (I think) was selling that is likely where your problems arose, get some good military spec ones.

 

[AsphaltAnihil8r]

DONALD/BRUCE

Are you guys saying that I will encounter proiblems with steering when I do the change over next week for the 12" brakes...
I have Robert Adams Arms, B_body spindles ,1LE rotors,B-Body Calipers,,what an I going to run into as far as problems ,,what is bumpsteer,I'm confused

 

[1badTTA]

Ditto on the heim joints, I see them everyday on aircraft and hardly ever see them go bad, and when they do it is usually for the threads being messed up from over torqueing the jam nut. True Heim joints are extremely stout when used correctly (seen them with a sideload get wasted in days, not what they are designed to do.

Once again, just my $.02

 

[bruce]

Originally posted by PRSRIZD_V6
I've never used them on the street, but a tuthill 5/8" rod end is plenty strong enough for oval racing and I've never replaced one due to wear (sloppiness). I would also have to say they see much higher loads than would a street car. Not to mention years ago when OE tierods were used we replaced them about once a month, hence a rule change was made to heim-joints for safety and ultimately cost. Just MHO.

If you were using the pretty Aluminum ones that Global West (I think) was selling that is likely where your problems arose, get some good military spec ones.

While side loadings might be higher, that's just a fraction of what wears out a heim joint when used for rod ends.
Oval tracks are realitivly smooth, and hardly compare for the endurance needed for day in and day out use.
The oem tie rod construction has changed dramaticly, over the years.

Have a heim jointed car fail in an accident, and watch the lawyers eyes turn to dollar signs.

 

[bruce]

Re: DONALD/BRUCE

Originally posted by AsphaltAnihil8r
Are you guys saying that I will encounter proiblems with steering when I do the change over next week for the 12" brakes...
I have Robert Adams Arms, B_body spindles ,1LE rotors,B-Body Calipers,,what an I going to run into as far as problems ,,what is bumpsteer,I'm confused

Bump Steer is a toe in change due to suspension deflection. ie hit a chuck hole or really lean the car over and the car with have a slight tendency to make a slight steering correction on it's own.

You might get a copy of Dave Morgan's book Doorslammers, and Herb Adams book Chassis Engineering, and get more familiar with what's going on.

The only hard part is dealing with the springs, and the chassis side of the brake lines might be some work as they corrode some.

 

[PRSRIZD_V6]

Originally posted by bruce
While side loadings might be higher, that's just a fraction of what wears out a heim joint when used for rod ends.
Oval tracks are realitivly smooth, and hardly compare for the endurance needed for day in and day out use.
The oem tie rod construction has changed dramaticly, over the years.

Have a heim jointed car fail in an accident, and watch the lawyers eyes turn to dollar signs.

I don't doubt that lawyers can ruin anything if they try, but other than lateral load, vibration, and dirt/grime what are the wearing factors on a heim joint?

Not all oval tracks are that smooth, and they are especially not smooth when you fail to stay on the track, which happens. Not that it makes a huge difference because there's hardly any vertical loading on a heim joint. And in an open front wheel car, banging wheels is probably the toughest thing you can do to a heim joint.... they hold up, trust me.

 

[Donald McMullin]

Bruce, I do not have an easy solution to the B-Spindle setup because I have not done this installation before. I am working on my modified metric spindle setup using Heim joints to get the setup correct. Once I have the final setup done, I will look for OEM tie rod ends which might work.

To minimize any risk with Heim joints, I am doing the following:

(a) Using oversized Heim joints for 3/4-inch but with 5/8-inch bore. These are rated at Max radial load of 28,000 lbs, not sure what stock OEM tie rod ends are rated at.

(b) Using tapered washer on end of Heim joint which is sized larger than Heim joint openning. This is standard practice with SCCA so that if for any reason Heim ball and race separate the washer will catch the body.

(c) Using Heim joint rubber seals to minimize dirt getting into joint.

When I locate a selction of OEM tie rod ends which might solve my bump steer, I will let you know what the measurements are to you can see if it would help you.

Have you determined how much you need to change your outer tie rod end?? To do this you will have to use a Heim joint for the mockup. I am not sure but depending on your ride height, I think you might have to lengthen the distance from the spindle to the tie rod pivot point. Again I have not work with the B-Spindle setup so I might be 180* out.

I might be working in Norton, Ohio (near Ackron) this winter. If so and that is near you, maybe we can get together and work out some details for your setup. I could ship out my bump steer gauge, spring compressors and other tools if you do not have them available.

Except for the high role center of the 4-link OEM rear suspension, I believe we can make these Regals handle as good as any well prepared F-body (not a full road race F-body).

It is all in the details.

Deep Enough

Donald McMullin

 

[cendres]

Belltech spindles and springs (minus 1 coil). Be careful with front wheel and tire fitment though. I had a severe rub with the stock wheel and tire on the outer lip of the front right fender. No problem at all with skinnies. Have fun.

 

[Donald McMullin]

One last item that needs to be checked if you use Heim joints is the angle of misalignment between the centerline of the bore and the radial connector.

If you exceed the allowable misalignment you place a thrust load on the ball, ball race, and housing which could separate the ball from the housing.

I am using a 12* total misalinment as a maximum (6* up and 6* down).

This is the biggest danger in using Heim joints, not the radial loading.

Deep Enough

Donald McMullin

 

[TURBOV6]

Eibach pro kit drop springs will get it right around there. I have a set on my T-Type, its a 1" drop. But will warn you you will have to probally cut a coil or more to compensate the hight difference from the front to the rear, but it depends on the car also.

 

[STP]

Bell Tech Impala SS lowering spindles...12 inch brake system...moog 5606 springs...Bell Tech 1.5" drop springs in back
check it out here... http://www.meacham.pointclark.net/scottsbuick/images/buickandz062.jpg

 

[petesgn]

Hey STP your car looks Bad A$$., What kind of rims and tires are you running?

I'm changing over to the B body brakes , 5660 springs B body tie rods and sleeves , Hopefully i won't have alot of bump steer.

 

[J Banning]

I good friend of mine (DCTurbo) has a VERY nice setup on his '87 GN (see below). It handles very well and the brakes are INCREDIBLE!

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Global West Negative Roll suspension system (Upper A-Arms, lower bushings, rear lower control arms, front sway bar, NO rear sway bar) B-Body spindles & 12" 1LE Brakes, GNX-style wheels, Yokahoma AVS tires (245/50-16 frt., 255/50-16 rear), airbags
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Send him a Private Message for more info.

-Banning.