Paging Craig Smith regarding FAST for LS1 applications

[Pro Stock John]

Craig,

I am looking into running FAST for my 2003 project. I will be supercharging an LS6 motor and hope to see about 20 lbs of boost at the beginning or ~675-725rwhp.

I cannot find anyone who is currently running a FAST/ LS1/Batchfire/ Wideband'd/ Edist box'd setup.

Scott a customer of Cartek says that he has it but I am not sure he is driving his car.

Harry from Precision felt that were many folks running it but could not give me a specific name of a person other than Rob Raymer and I am pretty positive that Rob's car is not running right now with the FAST.

My feeling is that the piggyback is the way to go with the EDist box. But I don't want to use a crank trigger I would like to use the stock crank sensor signal, is that possible? Everyone is telling me I will need a trigger wheel on the balancer or on the flywheel because the LS1 signal rate sharply differs from what FAST can read.

I did not want to run a FAST in the beginning but between all the issues (trying to run low imped 83's, maxing out MAF, wanting to run leaded 116 gas) it seems like the best option.

Please let me know here or privately (prostockjohn@hotmail.com) if I can use the stock crank signal that is my only concern right now (well it's kinda pricey too )

FWIW I own www.ls1tech.com and we have one user out of 10k registered and 50,000 lurkers) running the FAST (Scott WS6, Cartek).

My LT1 friends have been running FAST with great success.

Thanks!

John Ryan
owner, www.ls1tech.com
98 Formula Project Dragula
(348ci + YS Trim) for 2003.

 

[Nas-T-V6]

Sorry I can't be any help with your FAST setup, but are you the pro stock John that was in GMHTP sometime last year? If you are, cool car man!

 

[Reggie West]

Rob Raymer was working on a FAST system for his car back in Nov of last year.

He decided to use it when he was putting a 88 turbo on the car.

Check out his website he has the car and its buildup on there.

I do know that FAST makes an Edist box to interface with the ECM. If you are using the LS6 motor doesn't the motor already have one coil per cylinder ( EDIST ) ?

He is not using a supercharger but he should be able to help you nonetheless.

You may want to call Morgan Motorsports as well. They might have some answers for you too. That is just a guess though.

Hope this helps

 

[Pro Stock John]

Yeah that's me and my 98 Formula...
--
Rob is one of my sponsors at www.ls1tech.com, and I am going to go out on a limb and say that his car is not on the road, since he posted he was trying to sell the motor since it was too big for a certain racing class.

Julio Hormilla from www.cartek.net has a interface box he's developed to convert the factory LS1 crank sensor signal into a FAST-friendly format. Scott's WS6 is indeed running with the FAST but the FAST is not controlling the timing on his car since they have not wired in an EDist. Looks like I might be using Julio's solution since it seems to work and then I don't have to install a crank trigger.

 

[Craig Smith]

We are also building an adapter that creates a conventional 4X signal from the factory LS1 crank sensor. Without an adapter of this sort, an aftermarket crank trigger wheel must be used.

I have a bank to bank system with an eDist on an LS1 sitting on my dyno as we speak. I don't have a list of names I can give you but I can say with certainty that there are many many people with the same setup.

 

[Pro Stock John]

Thanks for the response Craig.

That's good to hear that folks have FAST working on their LS1 setups. I kept getting referred to the same 5-6 folks as examples and well I talk to these 5-6 folks on a regular basis and none of the folks have been compiling the connectivity issues like I have been. If you have any shops I can call to get a feel for the FAST on a LS1 let me know, I don't great contacts with Vette shops so I have never talked to folks like Ernie from Breathless.

Will your adaptor be out in the next 60 days? If a person got your adaptor will it be compatible with the EDist?

I'm going to go with whatever solution gets me on the track by June 1st.

 

[50Bucket]

I heard Turbo People were running a Gen 7+ on an LS1 and having awesome results...That was a few weeks ago though...

 

[Rob Raymer]

Hey John, my FAST system is up and running on my Z28. I'm using Cartek's interface box so that I wouldn't need a crank trigger. We had to have FAST modify the ECM to -I believe- a Halltech type setup?? (Maybe Craig can say for sure?)
It now picks up the timing signal directly from the stock crank sensor.

All of my factory guages work, and the car runs and idles beautifully. I haven't done any track testing or dyno testing on the engine, because I don't want to risk injuring it while trying to sell it. All we have done so far is tuned in the idle, part throttle, and revs. I've driven down the road a couple of times, but never laid into it. It did exactly what we wanted it to do, drove perfectly.

We also use a FAST system on our '87 Buick Staged car. It was/is a breeze to tune. It's hard to argue with 20+mpg and 9 second 140mph timeslips.

Hope that helps.

 

[Pro Stock John]

Hey Rob that's good to hear!

Okay, you are not using an Edist box right now or are you?

Is it compatible with the Cartek crank signal box?

I don't understand your comment, FAST had to modify the the FAST or the stock pcm, for the hall effect sensor? The factory crank sensor is a hall effect sensor.

 

[TwinTurboIroc]

Originally posted by Pro Stock John
Hey Rob that's good to hear!

Okay, you are not using an Edist box right now or are you?

Is it compatible with the Cartek crank signal box?

I don't understand your comment, FAST had to modify the the FAST or the stock pcm, for the hall effect sensor? The factory crank sensor is a hall effect sensor.

more than likely FAST had to modify their box to accept the timing signal coming out of the stock GM crank sensor.

 

[Craig Smith]

The box Julio made accepts the signal from the factory LS1 crank sensor and converts it to a conventional 4X signal that is compatible with most existing FAST systems.

This situation underscores exactly how trying it can be for manufacturers of engine management systems to keep up with the OEM market. Every car, every year, every make, every model, is "different" from the last one. There is NO standard. Producing a product that is capable of handling "all" these varying ignition strategies and leaving room to handle the ones around the corner for next year truly is a tremendous task.

Not only does the number of different ignition strategies among OEMs continuously increase, so does the complexity of each new strategy. It seems like these days, a factory PCM can determine exact crank position within about 0.00000000000000001 revolution of the engine. Of course, this means that in order to figure that out, there are about 12340985723409587342 pulses coming out of a single crank sensor, and the width of each pulse varies as well. This stuff keeps us up at night!

I guess I'm venting now. Thanks for listening.

 

[mike]

John, I heard that you got rid of your motor. You should've gotten a 6 banger. Don't worry your secret is safe with me. I'm redoing my whole car so we'll have to meet up when it's done. If you still don't remember who this is then maybe this will help white GN.

 

[Pro Stock John]

Craig, thanks for the replies. The Gen III series of engines have been out since 1997 and the LS1, LS6, and the truck motors (4.8, 5.3 and 6.0) all share the same style pcm and crank signal. I ran a 6.0 liter based 422ci stroker and it used the crank reference. I think the aftermarket pcm market is heating up but folks want plug'n play solutions.

In the meantime, I am going to be evaluating a different pcm controller that uses the factory LS1 crank reference, has low impedance drivers, and has a provisision for a 3 bar map sensor.

I'll keep you guys posted!

Mike from VIP? Wassup, I'll be sporting a blown LS6 motor this year I hope to be 1.5 tenths faster than last year.

John
98 Formula (11.02@122.6mph with issues NA)
02 LS6 block, 6.0 heads, Vortech YS trim, should go at least low 11's since I did that already...

 

[mike]

Yes from VIP, it sounds like your car is gonna haul. Hopefully my car is a couple of seconds faster than last year(12.2 last year). I've got a new aluminum block on order from TA Performance, some aluminum heads, and a big ol turbo. Have you fixed all the little stuff from last year? Remember Tony with the red Iroc, well he's having problems with his car and someone told me that you had the same thing. His car backfires at 5200 and then it changed to 5600, he has no clue and I'm just curious if the same thing happened to you. This all happened when he put a new chip in and a new intake. See ya this summer John.

 

[Pro Stock John]

Backfires can be the result of a lot of things...
-lean or rich condition
-ignition problem

Mine was the reluctor wheel on the crankshaft moving around, it had some play in it.

I sold the motor and trans so I could focus on building a blown stock displacement motor that runs 9's.

 

[mike]

John,

what did you do for emissions? i was thinking about getting show car insurance, but was wondering if that is what you did.

 

[JeffB]

holy crap! Craig's having a meltdown!

any progress on having a two-step work with the eDist/LS1 coil setup? I've got an LT1 but i'd love to get rid of that damn opti...

Originally posted by Craig Smith
Not only does the number of different ignition strategies among OEMs continuously increase, so does the complexity of each new strategy. It seems like these days, a factory PCM can determine exact crank position within about 0.00000000000000001 revolution of the engine. Of course, this means that in order to figure that out, there are about 12340985723409587342 pulses coming out of a single crank sensor, and the width of each pulse varies as well. This stuff keeps us up at night!

I guess I'm venting now. Thanks for listening.