Only .660V to CCCI???? HELP!

Missouri T

New Member
Joined
Jul 27, 2003
Hello folks,
My T died on me the other day.
I am making my way through the no-start "tree" and have stopped on checking the voltage to plug P on the CCCI.
It says it should be battery voltage but I'm only getting .660V.
Checked the fuse, it's fine.
Unplugged, reset and reseated the chip, no change.

What's bad?
The ECM? The spark module?

HELP!

Thanks, folks.
 
Inside the harness right near the passanger side valve cover there is a splice that goes three ways. One goes to the ECM one goes to the mass air and one goes to the CCCI for power. I had a car I worked on for a week that would not get power to the ECM I ran a jumper and it started when I search the wiring I found that slpice to be all corroded. I fixed it and all was well. Check the voltage going to the mas air and see if it is low. In my case 2 out of three were fine however.
Mike
 
Hello folks,
My T died on me the other day.
I am making my way through the no-start "tree" and have stopped on checking the voltage to plug P on the CCCI.
It says it should be battery voltage but I'm only getting .660V.
Checked the fuse, it's fine.
Unplugged, reset and reseated the chip, no change.

What's bad?
The ECM? The spark module?

HELP!

Thanks, folks.


Pin P is +12v supplied to various places via the ECM fuse. The voltage is supplied TO the ignition module, ECM, MAF, and ESC
You'll have to start tracing that wire back to find out why there's no voltage applied with key on/engine off, Assuming you're absolutely sure the ECM fuse is OK.
Check the pink/black wire that supplies the Module(already checked) ECM, MAF, and ESC, it's all the same electrical signal. If the voltage is missing at any one or more of the other points, then for some reason the voltage is not getting from the fuse panel out to the needed points.
 
Hi all,

Thanks for the responses!

I checked that junction, Mike.
It was cruddy as well.

Now I have 11.75V at the MAF, ECM pin A6 and the P socket.

Still no start.
It's doing the same thing.....crank, crank, crank then it'll chug (for a lack of better terms) as though it'll start and let what sounds like a poof through the intake.

I followed the no-start tree and checked everything stated therein:
test light on one injector plug.
Testing the crank sensor for signal and voltage (fine)
Testing cam sensor for signal and voltage (fine).
From what I've come up with via the no-start diagnosis tree, it's the CCCI module.

Going to pick one up right now.....local AC/Delco shop has it in stock.
Getting it at cost helps IMMENSELY!

I'll post my results after I do the swap.

Thanks again and keep the input coming.....it's all appreciated.
 
Hi all,

Thanks for the responses!

I checked that junction, Mike.
It was cruddy as well.

Now I have 11.75V at the MAF, ECM pin A6 and the P socket.

Still no start.
It's doing the same thing.....crank, crank, crank then it'll chug (for a lack of better terms) as though it'll start and let what sounds like a poof through the intake.

I followed the no-start tree and checked everything stated therein:
test light on one injector plug.
Testing the crank sensor for signal and voltage (fine)
Testing cam sensor for signal and voltage (fine).
From what I've come up with via the no-start diagnosis tree, it's the CCCI module.

Going to pick one up right now.....local AC/Delco shop has it in stock.
Getting it at cost helps IMMENSELY!

I'll post my results after I do the swap.

Thanks again and keep the input coming.....it's all appreciated.

Good luck Bill!!!
 
Success!

First off, thanks for all the responses!

I followed the No-Start diagnosis tree and it ended up being the CCCI!

Went to my local AC/Delco place after lunch (where I get everything at cost...yeah baby!), picked up a new one, put it in and VOILA!

It started right up and idled GREAT.

ONE QUESTION:
1. Does the CCCI gradually die? Or do they just stop altogether?

What makes me wonder is that my car revs VERY crisp with the new CCCI compared to the old one.

BTW, the previous CCCI was a NAPA, not an AC/Delco...I saw the label on the back as I removed it from the car.

Are other-than-AC/Delco replacements different?

Just curious.

Thanks again everyone!
Bill
 
Well, it could very well have been a sub standard unit. Remans usually are questionable anyway. Reman'd maf's are a perfect example.
 
Agreed with Dave on the sub standard part deal.
If you've ever popped your hood on a super humid night, you will see tons of condensation/water vapor covering everything. This combined with water that gets past the hood/cowl seal when you wash your car and or drive in a rain storm, will eventually soak into the CCCI sandwich. That piddly little gasket that comes with the parts, doesn't last forever and does not play well with water. This and super uber heat cycles underhood for 20 years, especially during those 90+ degree days will eventually lead to Coil or Ignition Module degradation and or failure. One trick I use whenever I wash my car, whether at home or at a manual car wash (You know the drill, stop at car wash to spray off the bugs before putting her back in the garage after a night out messing around on the streets) is to always keep a towel in the trunk. Pop the hood, and double fold the towel so that it covers the back of the engine/wiring harness/C3I assembly. Even with the hood/cowl weather strip seal, you would be surprised just how wet that towel gets.

Recently, some have reported the volcano effect of having the insulation goop boil out of the ignition module and make a big mess. Shortly there after it goes POOF!! I have seen this happen many times over the years on friends cars. I even had one just start to do it, but I caught it in time. It was my original one on my old grey car. My personal maintenance SOP is to change out the coil and module every 2-3 years, depending on how many times I race the car, and or miles I put on the car. I also invested in one of Caspers Electronics' coil pack testers. Best $99.00 I ever spent on my Buick specific diagnostic tool kit.
Glad you got it figured out. When I first started reading it, I was thinking it sounded like symptoms of C3I malfunction/failure.

Patrick
 
Agreed with Dave on the sub standard part deal.
If you've ever popped your hood on a super humid night, you will see tons of condensation/water vapor covering everything. This combined with water that gets past the hood/cowl seal when you wash your car and or drive in a rain storm, will eventually soak into the CCCI sandwich. That piddly little gasket that comes with the parts, doesn't last forever and does not play well with water. This and super uber heat cycles underhood for 20 years, especially during those 90+ degree days will eventually lead to Coil or Ignition Module degradation and or failure. One trick I use whenever I wash my car, whether at home or at a manual car wash (You know the drill, stop at car wash to spray off the bugs before putting her back in the garage after a night out messing around on the streets) is to always keep a towel in the trunk. Pop the hood, and double fold the towel so that it covers the back of the engine/wiring harness/C3I assembly. Even with the hood/cowl weather strip seal, you would be surprised just how wet that towel gets.

Recently, some have reported the volcano effect of having the insulation goop boil out of the ignition module and make a big mess. Shortly there after it goes POOF!! I have seen this happen many times over the years on friends cars. I even had one just start to do it, but I caught it in time. It was my original one on my old grey car. My personal maintenance SOP is to change out the coil and module every 2-3 years, depending on how many times I race the car, and or miles I put on the car. I also invested in one of Caspers Electronics' coil pack testers. Best $99.00 I ever spent on my Buick specific diagnostic tool kit.
Glad you got it figured out. When I first started reading it, I was thinking it sounded like symptoms of C3I malfunction/failure.

Patrick

Patrick, you echoed what I was thinking as I took the module/coilpack apart.
As I removed them, I noticed how oxidized the aluminum case was on the CCCI and how much light rust there was on the C3I/coilpack steel bracket/plate.
You definitely hit the nail on the head.

I sanded, cleaned and painted the bracket/plate before installing the new parts.
MUCH better!

2 or 3 year replacement? Sounds doable to me.
The previous one COULD be 8 years old! Only 6300 miles but OOOOLD.
I went ahead and picked up a new crank position sensor while I was at the store to keep around "just in case".
Don't have a Cam Sensor "in stock" yet but that is my next step.
Kirban seems to have the best price on those.
Anyone else I should check?

Caspers is awesome for those "must haves".
I plan on getting a cam sensor "limp home" module just-in-case.
I'll look into that coilpack checker as well.

Thanks again, folks.
Love the input!
 
Get off the computer and take that thing for a test ride!
I hope everything is cool now.
 
Get off the computer and take that thing for a test ride!
I hope everything is cool now.

John, I hear you brother.

Barring any bad weather, I'll take it out today sometime.

Here's to hoping it's a driver for a while.....I've had enough tinkering to last me for the next year, between that CCCI and all the fiddling I've done with mass air stuff.

I'll sure post my results.
 
Caspers is awesome for those "must haves".
I plan on getting a cam sensor "limp home" module just-in-case.
I'll look into that coilpack checker as well.

Thanks again, folks.
Love the input![/QUOTE]

I have all of the above. You have use the caspers coil pack checker on genuine AC delco coils/CCI. It won't work with the cheap remanufactured coils/CCCI. Called John and he explained this to me. I was amazed that my factory coils/CCCI that are 20 years old still worked well. I still purchased a new coil/CCI just in case :D .
 
I have all of the above. You have use the caspers coil pack checker on genuine AC delco coils/CCI. It won't work with the cheap remanufactured coils/CCCI. Called John and he explained this to me. I was amazed that my factory coils/CCCI that are 20 years old still worked well. I still purchased a new coil/CCI just in case :D .

No problem there.....my CCCI and coil pack are both brand new AC/Delco.
Thank goodness.
 
I took it for a spin to the Post Office just moments ago.

Started great.
Idled well.
Had a little surge on the highway at 60 but then again, this is only the second start on the reset ECM so it's probably still on a learning curve.

Checked TPS-perfect (.42-4.7).
Checked fuel pressure-43.
Boost was spot-on at 16.5 lbs. and boost response was great.
I bumped my Translator WOT fuel back to 0 (from 10% rich) before the run thinking I was running way fat before but I just set it to 6%.
Why?
I saw 2.5 degrees of knock at WOT/16.5 lbs. boost but only saw 790 on the O2's.
Before at 10% I had no knock but 820-830 O2's.
6% should be a happy medium.
This is a cool morning so it'll be REAL knock sensitive when the temps go through the ceiling around here again-on Monday.
Better safe than sorry I always say.

Thanks again, folks.

Now can I PLEASE just drive and enjoy the car for a while? :rolleyes:
 
Just had a similiar problem on my car and it ended up being Pin M on the CCCI we traced it back andfound zero problems with the wire externally and found voltage near the firewall. So we cut it open and it was corroded about 6 inches from the plug to back by the firewall for no reason. The casing on the wire was good with no splices we could find. Just another tidbit on the no start isuues in case someone searches this later.
 
OH NO Mr. Bill has a running T Type!!!:eek:
Have some fun with it you deserve it after the last week or two!

ha ha ha
You got that right, John.
It does feel good to have it up and running again.

AND I got the new tranny in my turbo dune buggy.
Fired it up just moments ago for the first time in almost two months!
No muffler thunder baby! :eek:
It feels good to hear that wee turbo motor running again, too.
Ahh......
I'm back to a two turbo family again. :biggrin:
 
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