After having a headache from trying to tune my propain kit, I realised I was getting 100% from the solenoid all the time. To make a long story short, I ended up removing tho Green wire going from the solenoid to the plug in connector and attached it to a ground. The black and green wires together were causing a constant ground to the solenoid which is supposed to be pulsed to control the Duty Cycle. Problem Solved, Thanks JayC and Dan for the help solving this mystery.
Note to ProPain Users
- Thread starter 1badTTA
- Start date
TurboBuickSix
Active Member
- Joined
- May 23, 2001
Are all of them like this or was this just an error on your kit?I run my DC at 100% anyways so I would'nt see it.I can't get mine to bog not matter what I set anything at but I am running 25 psi so it may be using all I'm hitting it with.
EDIT:I read your sig and see your mostly stock,you need more compressed air and fuel, not less propane!!!
EDIT:I read your sig and see your mostly stock,you need more compressed air and fuel, not less propane!!!
I talked to Dan at OGS and so far all the kits have been assembled like this. If you are running at 100% it won't matter and you would never know it, but if you are trying to tune it with less than 100% then it will be a problem. Not all kits will necessarily do what mine did. If your ProPain system never finds a ground of its own, the kit will work perfectly. Also, it will work perfect on a bench since the kit isn't bolted to a car, therefore the kit itself isnt grounded and it was never picked up by OGS when they test the kits before shipping.
If you are wondering if your kit will do what mine does, turn off the bottle, and pressurize the clear line with the injection control set around 50%. If it clicks on and off like a record skipping, it works, if not just cut the green wire on the solenoid and it will.
God I love being the guinne pig to install propain in a TTA
TurboBuickSix
Active Member
- Joined
- May 23, 2001
thanks..
I'm going to have to check it out,I may need a bigger jet in the future.
I'm going to have to check it out,I may need a bigger jet in the future.
TurboBuickSix
Active Member
- Joined
- May 23, 2001
TTA,will you please go thru what you did again, and more specifically this time.It is not real clear which side (sol or control)of the wire goes to ground and which is deadheaded, or if both ends of the cut green wire go to ground.Sorry to be a PITA, but I wanted this to be as clear as possible,thanks
There is only one green wire in the system so it is pretty simple. Cut the wire where it enters the plug. This will leave only the Black wire going into one side of the terminal and the Red wire going into the other side. I recomend you put a eyelet terminal on the end of the Green wire you just cut and connect it to ground for safety reasons (you are running a flamable gas through an electronic component) but the solenoid works fine without the Green wire grounded. Clear enough?
I think this is insane that Jay C hasnt chimed in yet and set the record straight!!!!!! We all paid good money for theese kits that were so called "engineerd well" and they miss something like this in testing even on test vehicles that ran for months with it Whats the deal do I cut the wire or not and why it only affects some users ???
even on test vehicles that ran for months with it Whats the deal do I cut the wire or not and why it only affects some users ???Red and black wires are coil wires. The green grounds the body. ever installed a ceiling fan its application is intended to ground the body..but black as used in the kit isnt ground. It only can pose a problem if hooked up with the black.
Cutting the wire wont harm anything.
HTH till Jay chimes in
its application is intended to ground the body..but black as used in the kit isnt ground. It only can pose a problem if hooked up with the black.Cutting the wire wont harm anything.
HTH till Jay chimes in
- Joined
- May 27, 2001
Ive emailed Dan and asked him to put a notice on his web page regarding the wiring issue.
Keep in mind that this has only happened to 1 person. Its not like every kit that goes out the door has experienced this same problem. Nevertheless, I am sure Dan will correct it in future wiring harnesses when he assembles them.
Finally, since almost all of the propane support that I do comes through this forum in one way or the other (Even people who email me direct read here), I believe that the majority of the people using the kits will see this post and if they have the problem will see the solution.
Also keep in mind that I am not the vendor. I am not privy to OGS's customer list, I have no idea who has bought kits, I simply provide support as needed. I think Dan does a pretty good job of being a "responsible vendor" and I hope my mispoken statements don't reflect on him.
Keep in mind that this has only happened to 1 person. Its not like every kit that goes out the door has experienced this same problem. Nevertheless, I am sure Dan will correct it in future wiring harnesses when he assembles them.
Finally, since almost all of the propane support that I do comes through this forum in one way or the other (Even people who email me direct read here), I believe that the majority of the people using the kits will see this post and if they have the problem will see the solution.
Also keep in mind that I am not the vendor. I am not privy to OGS's customer list, I have no idea who has bought kits, I simply provide support as needed. I think Dan does a pretty good job of being a "responsible vendor" and I hope my mispoken statements don't reflect on him.
Could you explain how it only affects some kits ? My kit had the green wire and black wire together in the connector. How will the new ones be wired? Thanks for the info Jay and sorry I guess no one can hold you responsible for not notifying customers since you had no idea who they were sold to.
- Joined
- May 27, 2001
As stated above, basically it will be determined with how the system is mounted. On the bench, the problem isn't there. In the few cars I have actually worked with that have production kits, I haven't seen it either. However, I'm sure that's a drop in the bucket compared to the number of kits that are out there.
I assume (Havent spoken to Dan yet to verify this) that future revisions of the harness will just have a ring terminal on the green wire so it can be grounded to the chasis. I will try to run him down this week at some point and verify this. He has been really hard to pin down this summer. I've only talked to him once in the last 2-3 months.
I assume (Havent spoken to Dan yet to verify this) that future revisions of the harness will just have a ring terminal on the green wire so it can be grounded to the chasis. I will try to run him down this week at some point and verify this. He has been really hard to pin down this summer. I've only talked to him once in the last 2-3 months.
I've read and re-read this thread a bunch of times and I'm still confused. From the above posts, I'm ASSuming the green wire is there (only) to ground the "shell" of the solenoid, along with the piping and tank and whatever else it may see. I looked through the instructions and there is nothing on any wiring other than hot and ground connections.
Again, I'm ASSuming the other end of the green wire somehow internally ties into the black wire from the controller that we (the consumer) actually wire into the car. I'd sure like to know more before cutting anything!
That being said, I do not see how cutting the green wire will change a thing. Grounding the "forward" end will accomplish nothing, nor will leaving it hanging loose. Grounding the "aft" end will only make the previous problem re-occur. UNLESS - the solenoid is defective internally and needs the ground to operate, but then it wouldn't have worked in the first place.
For what it's worth, I bench-checked my system on a steel topped bench with the regulator in a vise and had no trouble making it work. I'm not exactly sure how to check it now, unless I can find a volunteer to ride in the bed during a full throttle pass!
Again, I'm ASSuming the other end of the green wire somehow internally ties into the black wire from the controller that we (the consumer) actually wire into the car. I'd sure like to know more before cutting anything!
That being said, I do not see how cutting the green wire will change a thing. Grounding the "forward" end will accomplish nothing, nor will leaving it hanging loose. Grounding the "aft" end will only make the previous problem re-occur. UNLESS - the solenoid is defective internally and needs the ground to operate, but then it wouldn't have worked in the first place.
For what it's worth, I bench-checked my system on a steel topped bench with the regulator in a vise and had no trouble making it work. I'm not exactly sure how to check it now, unless I can find a volunteer to ride in the bed during a full throttle pass!
S10xGN
The green wire does ground the body of the solenoid. The black and red wires operate the coil inside the solenoid. The problem is that the controller turns the ground on and off (pulse width modulation) in order to control anything less than 100% on "injection control". By tying the green and black wires together in the connector, if any part of the kit is grounded (line, tank, solenoid) and can pass that ground to the body of the solenoid, the solenoid will open and not cycle untill boost drops below the turnon point.
If you want to test it without being dangerous, turn off the tank, give it enough boost to activate for a second to purge solenoid and regulator, then you can use a mighty vac or other pressure source to activate it without injecting propane. With the "injection control" set in the middle (slight detent you can feel) and enough pressure to turn it on, you should be able to hear the solenoid constantly clicking on and off about 3 times per second. If you don't, it is because the grounds are tied together. Now cut the green wire at the connector and it should click on and off as originally designed.
If you are running it at 100% (fully clockwise) on the "injection control" then doing this won't make any difference since the solenoid will see a constant ground from the controller as well as from the green wire. It doesn't effect the solenoid turning on, just it's cycling.
HTH, PM me if you are still confused.
The green wire does ground the body of the solenoid. The black and red wires operate the coil inside the solenoid. The problem is that the controller turns the ground on and off (pulse width modulation) in order to control anything less than 100% on "injection control". By tying the green and black wires together in the connector, if any part of the kit is grounded (line, tank, solenoid) and can pass that ground to the body of the solenoid, the solenoid will open and not cycle untill boost drops below the turnon point.
If you want to test it without being dangerous, turn off the tank, give it enough boost to activate for a second to purge solenoid and regulator, then you can use a mighty vac or other pressure source to activate it without injecting propane. With the "injection control" set in the middle (slight detent you can feel) and enough pressure to turn it on, you should be able to hear the solenoid constantly clicking on and off about 3 times per second. If you don't, it is because the grounds are tied together. Now cut the green wire at the connector and it should click on and off as originally designed.
If you are running it at 100% (fully clockwise) on the "injection control" then doing this won't make any difference since the solenoid will see a constant ground from the controller as well as from the green wire. It doesn't effect the solenoid turning on, just it's cycling.
HTH, PM me if you are still confused.
Well, I tested my setup in the car today and sure enough - it stayed at 100% DC! Snipped the green wire and DC is now controllable. I finally *saw* the light - by being "common" the green wire is actually grounding the black wire (through the tank to the truck bed) ALL the time, not just when the DC "pulse controller" calls for intermittent grounding.
1bad - you called it, it just took me awhile to see it! Thanks for being patient...
1bad - you called it, it just took me awhile to see it!
Thanks for being patient...Now the question arrises, how many people are running a propain kit and have the control set to 75%-100% and have no idea that there is no difference. Not that it really matters that much since you can adjust the regulator for less pressure and can also change jets to get less flow. I just wanted the "in car" control for tuning purposes. We won't talk about what else I have done with my kit.
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