NO2 Activation

[Lil Truck]

I am setting up to run the Dry NO2 option. I have a FAST bank to bank system w/fan & Fuel control, I believe it should have 1 stage of NO2.

I have wired in the activation switch to 12v (pink), and the white to neg. side of a relay. At this time the relay is only switching a second fuel pump for testing. The dashboard on the data logger shows the NO2 Enabled but when the perameters are met 75% TPS and 4000 RPM nothing happens, No relay trip or timing Ret.?

Also I have been reading numerous threads on NO2, I am looking for sound advice on my system. I have a Chev 383, H-beam rods, 4340 crank 9.3 Weisco pistons, Dart 200cc ported 2.05/1.6, Holley intake w50lb injectors, NOS 1000cfm TB w/Dry NO2 plumbed, MSD HEI w/MSD 6A, runs out at 6300 Rpm, Small Comp Cam 226/234 520/530, FAST Speed Density w/WBO2 and GM knock sensor, dual 340 fuel pumps.

The NOS dry system is rated 150-200 HP, any susgestions ?

Something I should mention, everything is working great with my system, but at 6700 RPM the motor hits a wall, data logger shows rich, the cam is dead I know, backed out the VE, still dosent rev? Is this normal ? Tried plug gap .035-.045 not much difference. At 36 deg. total, tried 40-32 no signs of knock, but sounds like a mis. ? Adjusted lifters Hyd. several times thought it was pump up. Maybe it is! Never had a Hyd lifter motor act like this.

 

[55Belair]

AS for the nitrous setup, I can't help. I'm in the middle of setting mine up also.

As for not reving above 6700, sounds like you are hitting the internal rev limiter.

 

[bobc455]

I don't know about the wiring problem, the first thing I would do is make sure that *all* of the parameters are being met (i.e. is your TPS actually exceeding 75%? Do you have the second stage delay active?).

For the rev limit problem, perhaps I am confused but I think I am reading that your MSD limits you to 6300 RPM, then it seems logical that 6700 RPM will be virtually impossible to achieve...

Originally posted by Lil Truck

The NOS dry system is rated 150-200 HP, any susgestions ?

What sort of advice to do you seek?

-Bob Cunningham
bobc@gnttype.org

 

[Lil Truck]

Thank you for the replies.

I have set the rev limiter to 8000-8500 in the FAST C-com. The MSD HEI is a replacement computer controlled unit that I believe has a stock module in it, I am unaware of an internal rev limiter in this unit and the MSD-6A I have run on several other vehicles, some as high a 8000 RPM. I have read that the HEI has limitations but I have never experienced the with good quality componets in place.

As for the NOS, I do not have the second stage delay activated. I set everything after the first stage to 0.00. Do I need to change these perameters?

The advice I am looking for is motor longevity, I picked the dry NOS system controlled by the FAST system as the best managed system available. I have experienced NOS failure in the past! I plan to use the system in high gear only and make the motor and trans last for a few seasons if that is possible.

I have set the NO2 fuel to 75#s across the board stage 1,
stage II is at 100#s
Set A/F at 11.0 for NOS, normally 12.5 w/o
Starting with 150 HP shot.
Set 6 deg. retard stage 1.
Total Timing w/o retard is 36 deg.
RPM range for NO2 3500-6300

Thanks again for your replies, they are appreciated.

Sincerly,
Steve K
Lil Truck

 

[bobc455]

I could have sworn there were three wires in the nitrous harness. I just can't seem to remember what that third (black?) wire is for.

Anyhow, if you are meeting all of the parameters, the only other thing I can think of is to make sure that your ECM was set up for nitrous- different units have limitations on how many outputs can be controlled. Your dealer can tell you for sure if your ECM can control nitrous.

If you have the 2nd stage delay set to zero, then that shouldn't cause you problems.

As far as recommendations / advice for long engine life (besides the usual cautions about running nitrous such as retarding the timing), here are my thoughts:
- Tune the engine perfectly without nitrous first. Once you have it tuned so well that you can run in open loop, start to play with the nitrous. First one stage, then the other stage, then both, checking & double checking along the way.
- Don't tune the nitrous according to the WB O2- do it by reading the plugs. The subject of the WB's accuracy with nitrous has been debated on this board, and IMO the plugs will give you the best sense of how you are running.
- Make sure your spark plugs are a good nitrous plug (no platinum!) and of the proper heat range (cold!).
- Run consistent fuel pressure and nitrous pressure. The fuel pressure is usually pretty reliable, but blowing the motor is a tough way to find out that your fuel pump has lost some oomph. I think I saw that Nitrous Express makes a cutoff switch for FI cars that will cut off the nitrous if the fuel pressure drops. Consistent nitrous pressure is also important, NX sells a bottle heater control switch that works according to bottle pressure. You don't want to tune on a cool Friday night when the temperature is 50 degrees and your bottle pressure is 500 PSI, just to go back the next day when the temp is 85 and your bottle pressure is 1000 PSI! Having a heater controlled by a pressure switch is the smartest route, IMO.

You seem to have a 2-stage nitrous system, how are the two stages split? 150HP + 50 HP?

As for the HEI / Rev limit issue, you said in your first post that something (the MSD?) "runs out" at 6300 RPM. Is that your camshaft? Do you have enough valvespring pressure for the cam & RPMs that you are running?

Also, doesn't MSD eliminate the module in the HEI? The HEI essentially becomes a crank sensor and rotor, I don't think you need a module.

One other thing about HEI- I don't like the coil-in-cap arrangement with the FAST- I would try to use an external coil. I have seen the coil cause errant RPM readings because of electrical / magnetic interference from the coil to the pickup.

Just my opinions, they are worth what you paid for them...

-Bob Cunningham
bobc@gnttype.org

 

[Lil Truck]

Bob,
Thanks for your input!

I have checked my FAST unit ID it is set up for a single stage of NOS, there are three wires Pink 12v NOS activate, White Stage 1 relay GND, and Blue Stage 2 relay GND. I have reset my FAST to 65% TPS and 3500 min RPM, 11.0 A/F ratio.

I am only running a single stage Dry NOS TB setup, NOS says that it is adjustable from 50-250 HP w/Cheater system. I have decided to go with 100 HP shot only and have adjusted the FAST NOS fuel chart stage 1 to 50 lbs of extra fuel across the board. I have the retard set to 6 deg. and will take your advice on reading the spark plugs for tuning. Also I will invest in a bottle heater, this time of year it is still cool for NOS.

Thanks for all the Advice and your time!

Steve K
Lil Truck

 

[bobc455]

I sure am confused on the nitrous problem!

You are exceeding the minimum TPS.
You are in the right RPM range.
You have 12V+ to the pink wire (arming the system).
You have the white wire on the ground for the relay for the nitrous solenoid (you have the rest of the relay wired correctly too, I assume).
You have your 2nd stage delay set to zero.
The ECM is set up to handle a nitrous shot.
You have the "Dry Flow N2O Enabled" radio box checked.
But for some reason, the nitrous is still not activating. ?!?!?!?!?!

Have you verified that the ECM is getting 12V through the pink wire when you arm the system?

Any blown fuses?

Grasping at straws...
-Bob Cunningham
bobc@gnttype.org

 

[Lil Truck]

Bob,

The NOS activation shows on my dash board, but the stage activation is not responding. I am planning to wire up the relays to activation lights this weekend. Maybe my problem is only in the data logger? I should have better info after this test.

Thank You,

Steve K
Lil Truck

 

[Lil Truck]

Update

After a week end of trouble shooting and testing I contacted FAST. The Unit should have a single stage of NOS but it is not responding. I will be sending it to FAST for repair.

As for the spark problem it appears that the the stock module in the New MSD distributor is bad. I talked to MSD also.

Thanks for all the help!

I will update the thread when I get all the results.

Steve K
Lil Truck

 

[Lil Truck]

N2O Activation and HEI Option

I am happy to report that the problem with the N2O activation has been solved. It seem that if you order the FAST unit with the HEI output Option you will loose your single stage of N2O.

The problem that I experienced of limited rpm (6300) is the HEI module, even after I replaced it with a new one the problem still occured.

The only solution for both problems was to have the FAST ECM programed for inductive pick-up and get rid of the HEI module.
This gives me back the Single stage N2O control.

Problem solved, just a little time & $

Thanks for all the input!

Steve K
Lil Truck

 

[Ricky Trussell]

Let me make sure I understand you. If I have computer controlled
timing then I can't use the fast to control my nitrous?? Surely that is not what you said, tell me it's not so!!
I have a new nitrous system wired and plumbed , only needing the juice to be ready.

 

[55Belair]

I think the problem was that he did not have a ecu set up for inductive pick up. If yours was ordered for inductive pick up, you should be fine.

 

[Lil Truck]

I was informed by Tony at FAST that it was only the (HEI option) that caused the loss of the N2O Option. If you are running an inductive pick-up, crank trigger, or DIS you should be OK.

Steve K
Lil Truck

P.S. It was only 40$ +ship to fix the problem.

 

[Syclone Dude]

Steve, who did you send the ecu to? Directly to fast or through one of there distributors?

TIA
BigAl...

 

[Lil Truck]

Where to Send

I sent my ECM directly to FAST, you can get their info from the Web site, I believe its Fuelairspark.com.

They do require that you call for an RMA before sending it in, talk to Tony in the FAST department.

P.S. I need to correct my previous post, there are two Ignition options that require the removal of the N2O option, HEI, & DIS.

Lil Truck
Steve K

 

[Craig Smith]

I generally am on here more than I have been the last month. Sorry I haven't been around, I knew what was happening as soon as I read your first post.

Your situation can be corrected with an option file. It doesn't need to be returned. Have you been taken care of yet?

 

[Lil Truck]

Craig,

My ECM is at FAST RMA 904, it may be on the way back already.

Can you tell me what should have taken place to correct this problem without sending in the unit?

Lil Truck,
Steve K

 

[Syclone Dude]

Craig, I have the FAST b2b with the PTE plug and play harness on my syclone, according to the part number it is currently setup for GM HEI, I DEFFINETELY want to run Nitrous. Can I get the option file from you? Also I tried wiring the fan to run off the FAST and "no worky". I checked the wiring several times, does this also need an option file?

TIA
BigAl...

P.S. If there is a cost for the option files please let me know.

 

[Syclone Dude]

Hey Craig ya out there?

BigAl...

 

[Lil Truck]

Update

I received my ECM back from FAST, it has been reconfigured for IPU and the single stage N2O.

I found that my MSD probillet HEI distributor does have the rotor phased with the reluctor. I tried to get around this issue with some ideas that had been used by others but they didn't seem to work for me.

The solution that did work was to rephase the rotor. I rotated the crank to 50 BTDC, then centered the IPU with a reluctor tab, and locked down the dist. Next I rotated the crank to 30 BTDC where I would position the rotor with No 1 cyl. I acomplished this by grinding away the locator tab on the inside of the rotor with a small bit. Then I used some strong adhesive to lock it in place.
I then marked the reluctor tabs that it was pretty much centered between with a permanent marker for replacement ease.

She fired on the first try and only needed a 3 deg adjustment, the motor revs freely now past 7000.

The N2O system tests out perfectly cant wait to use it!

P.S. I do have a spare rotor and glue in the glove box, the reluctor on this unit does not seem to be easly rephased.

Lil Truck
Steve K