Newbie questions...

[DrCAS]

Okay, i am a newbie when it comes to Buick turbo motors. Please be nice and keep the humiliating kicks to the crotch to a bare minimum...

I have always admired the power outputs they have and love the look of a turbocharged engine. I have a 231 oddfire engine in my Astre Panel hooked up to a TH350. My plan is to install the turbo motor with a T-5 tranny utilizing a Monza flywheel and a Haywood scattershield to adapt the Ford tranny to motor.

So, I bought a 1985 turbo motor for 50 bucks from a member of another site I hang out on. I know that this is a hot air motor. I bought the engine mostly complete including the ECU and wiring harness. I am really thinking hard about moving up to the newer intercooler type system. Is it really worth the effort?

I have a lot questions... Let's start with some basic ones first.

Since my fuel pump is now in the gas tank, should I keep the original pump and run a second pump to boost the fuel pressure up to what is going to be needed for the SFI or should I adapt a new in tank unit instead?

Should I mount the ECU inside the car or can it be mounted in the engine compartment?

If I go with an intercooler, will the turbo I have be adequate?

Okay, those are the ones I have right now. I know I will have a boatload more in the future.

My project car is a 1973 Pontiac Astre Panel Express. I am in the process of putting an S-10 rearend in it now and swapping out the front suspension with tubular A-arms and S-10 spindles. Once i pull the engine out, I am going to swap in a new K member that is set up for a power rack and pinion instead of the bulky leaking unit I have right now.

I am impressed with the level of knowledge I have seen here so far. I know I came to the right place.

Thanks!

 

[eric_1984ttype]

I am really thinking hard about moving up to the newer intercooler type system. Is it really worth the effort?

Yes it is worth the effort.

Since my fuel pump is now in the gas tank, should I keep the original pump and run a second pump to boost the fuel pressure up to what is going to be needed for the SFI or should I adapt a new in tank unit instead?

Ditch the pump you have and install one pump capable of supplying the appropriate fuel pressure.


Should I mount the ECU inside the car or can it be mounted in the engine compartment?

Inside the car. The ecu's in these were not designed to take the water they might see under the hood

If I go with an intercooler, will the turbo I have be adequate?

The hot air turbo mounts in a different location and is not compatable with an intercooler setup.

I am in the process of putting an S-10 rearend in it now

Might want to reconsider the s10 rearend. Most were the 7.5 inch 10 bolt and aren't very strong. I'd atleast do the 8.5 10 bolt as the Turbo cars originally came with. They are a bit tougher.

These are just my opinions. Others may say different

 

[DrCAS]

I was planning on using the late model 8.5" rear end. The reason I want the S-10 rear axle assembly is that the width is only 1" different from the stock H-Body rear axle assembly I have now which is a 6.5" wimpy little thing.

So could I use the turbo I have now by relocating it or do I need to get a different one?

Is my basically free motor going to end up costing me a bunch of money? LOL! Shhhhhhhh... don't answer too loud... wifey might hear! LOL!

 

[eric_1984ttype]

I'd upgrade to a turbo made for a 86-7 if you do the intercooled conversion. I don't think you'll gain a whole lot without upgrading.

It costs money to go fast......

 

[SHADOWII]

In MHO...

the 86/7 offers more options than the earlier models. Upgrading costs a little more in the beginning, but your wallet will usually dictate how far you can go.
Keep an eye on the "parts4sale" section, as you can usually get good deals there as well as an idea of pricing. Besides it will be a lot easier fabbing up the plumbing, making room for the IC to mount, etc. the first time than having to do it twice. But let your choice of HP dictate your "need":biggrin: to upgrade. 200HP or 400HP
For example:
stock turbo:$75.00=150.00 used TE-60:300.00-450.00
stk IC:50.00-100.00 " Dut/neck IC:100.00-200.00
SLIC:250.00-550.00 "F/M:350.00-650.00
stk injectors:25.00-75.00 " 36/42#:65.00-180.00
Those are a few examples and idea's to think about. The H/A guys can give you a big hand into what's actually needed to make the transition, like harness, ecm,etc. than you can be an educated guesser like the rest of us!:biggrin:

 

[forzfed]

My plan is to install the turbo motor with a T-5 tranny utilizing a Monza flywheel and a Haywood scattershield to adapt the Ford tranny to motor.

Your better off with an auto. The torque is what makes these cars move. With a 5 speed you'll probably being pulling out of the torque curve too fast, plus you'll lose boost on every shift. My one car ran 12.3@108 crossing the traps at 4500rpm. I know guys that put in lower gears, cross the traps at higher rpms an went slower.

 

[just plain john]

Your better off with an auto. The torque is what makes these cars move. With a 5 speed you'll probably being pulling out of the torque curve too fast, plus you'll lose boost on every shift. My one car ran 12.3@108 crossing the traps at 4500rpm. I know guys that put in lower gears, cross the traps at higher rpms an went slower.

X2, there's a reason they came from the factory equipped with an automatic only. No load on the engine equals no boost.

 

[Pittsburghkid]

Also make sure you have a fuel injected fuel pump and tank because the turbo'd Regal tanks have different baffling then the carb'd tanks. Also you should get an 86-87 ecu no matter which way you go because they're a plug and play upgrade to the hot air ecu and can be found for around $75-100.

 

[DrCAS]

So, what is different about the fuel tank? I understand the need for the high pressure pump but what is so different about the tank itself? Am I looking at getting a custom made fuel tank then or could I go to a fuel cell instead?

I see the difference in the mounting of the newer turbo than the '85. So I would need a whole bunch of newer stuff to swap to a newer intercooler system.

If I stayed with the HA turbo, it has been stated that I would still be better to upgrade the ECM... How come?

X2, there's a reason they came from the factory equipped with an automatic only. No load on the engine equals no boost.

I have heard this argument that "Buick would have used one..." about manual trannies before. Most likely it was really due to the fact that Buick dropped the manual transmission in the second generation Regals early in it's initial production run.

A slew of production cars have been equipped with manual transmissions and turbos and they all work just fine. I am not arguing here... just making my point.

I want a stick shift. My wife wants a stick shift. How can I deny the wants and needs of my woman? Especially when they are the same as mine? The things we do for love, right?

 

[Pittsburghkid]

The fuel tank isn't custom it's just specific to the turbo regals because of the baffling inside. If your car has a tank in the rear and the filler neck that comes out of the rear of the car like a regal than you might be able to use a stock tank if not then a fuel cell would probably be the best way to go. The ECM from the 86-87 allows for more tuning by way if the chips made for them.

 

[DrCAS]

What are the actual differences between the turbos on a HA car and IC car if any?

I am missing the pipe between the turbo and the exhaust manifold. The pipes i have look fairly crappy... where would I get replacements?

I am assuming the vendors on this site have proven track records?


The Astre fuel tank has a rear filler neck. The fueling neck is behind the license plate bracket.

I found a boatload of info on the 84/85 HA cars for diagrams and such. This site just freaking rocks!