New hotair intakes underway!
- Thread starter national84
- Start date
national84
Heavy breather
- Joined
- Jun 21, 2001
We weren't saying that at all, its just that having been in that situation myself, we decided that we were not doing any gp's and we wouldn't take $$$ up front. In my opinon, part of the problem with TM was that he got more orders than he could handle at one time. He was ovewhelmed, too many parts to track down and too much work for a 1 man operation. I can't garauntee that we will get every kit back in 7 days, but I can garauntee that we won't be holding your money while you're having second thoughts.
The Casper's chip should do well for everyone, hopefully tomorrow morning we will get a little more insight into a good chip setup for the kit, if we do, we will make whatever we come up with available for you to use as you wish.
As for thie i/c kit, we have pretty much finalized the intercooler itself, the piping is a minor issue, all we are short is brackets. The idea is there, we just need to do the mock-up on the brackets. From this stage, we have an intercooler that is based on stock, with the restrictive stock neck removed, and a 2.5" tube in its place. A mount location that is pretty well identical to stock I think you will all be pleasantly surprised. The install will be clean and simple.
Ihaven't used this setup myself, but I am very familiar with the way it works. I like the adjustability with it and think that if you put in little tuning time, it will should make the car a real performer. Your key adjustments to tuning are timeing and fuel, thats what that set-up adresses. If you can use it well, the car will respond well.
I will be going to Jeff's Monday afternoon/tuesday a which point we will try to ge the brackets done. His electric fans have yet to come, but we will be able to remove the clutch fan and install anyway
racemybuick
Hot Air Teacher/Student
- Joined
- Apr 3, 2003
any recent pics of the current application and it's new home? I never saw the car you bought, and I never saw the entire set-up in place!
John
John
IC Mod
Just a few questions about the IC.
When I ship the IC to you - you need the stock 87 up-pipe (IC to TB) right ? Then you mod the IC resrtictive neck AND you mod the up-pipe ?
So if I need silicone hoses - I need one for the TB to up-pipe, one for the IC to compressed air charge pipe, and one for the compressor to charged air pipe right ? A total of 3 ?
The charged air pipe im referring to is the pipe supplied with the kit and is 2.5" OD.
When it gets shipped back I get brackets along with it too right ? I realize you are workin on the brackets now...
Man I dunno bout anyone else but i'm dyin' to see the results here !!!! Any chance we get a video when its done like before ??????
Please please please??????
Just a few questions about the IC.
When I ship the IC to you - you need the stock 87 up-pipe (IC to TB) right ? Then you mod the IC resrtictive neck AND you mod the up-pipe ?
So if I need silicone hoses - I need one for the TB to up-pipe, one for the IC to compressed air charge pipe, and one for the compressor to charged air pipe right ? A total of 3 ?
The charged air pipe im referring to is the pipe supplied with the kit and is 2.5" OD.
When it gets shipped back I get brackets along with it too right ? I realize you are workin on the brackets now...
Man I dunno bout anyone else but i'm dyin' to see the results here !!!! Any chance we get a video when its done like before ??????
Please please please??????
The most recent pics I have are still @ www.jsmanufacturing.com in the gallery.
I will update as I get time.
I will be gone for most of the rest of the month, so bear with me.
I did just get home from "Grumpy's" in which he was overly grateful in helping us today look at the computer and get an idea on where to go next.
I will let him chime in if he wants, but we did have one conclusion and it was the intake is flowing some serious air.
I still have a few things to check out, and let sink in but with some more time tuning that will come and I can guide people in which direction they will need to go with a tune more accurately.
I will say this, if you expect to throw it on, and not tune it won't work. No way I can rip the guts out of the most restrictive intake I have ever seen, modify it, and expect it to require the same tune.
More to come as I get my tune dialed in.
The intake is showing more promise in performance than I origninally expected though.
I will update as I get time.
I will be gone for most of the rest of the month, so bear with me.
I did just get home from "Grumpy's" in which he was overly grateful in helping us today look at the computer and get an idea on where to go next.
I will let him chime in if he wants, but we did have one conclusion and it was the intake is flowing some serious air.
I still have a few things to check out, and let sink in but with some more time tuning that will come and I can guide people in which direction they will need to go with a tune more accurately.
I will say this, if you expect to throw it on, and not tune it won't work. No way I can rip the guts out of the most restrictive intake I have ever seen, modify it, and expect it to require the same tune.
More to come as I get my tune dialed in.
The intake is showing more promise in performance than I origninally expected though.
Forgot one...
What about the thermostat / coolant neck - it has a hose that goes to the water pump running off it stock. How did you get around that - is it modded or left alone....if modded - would you need one of those sent in as well ?
I read something about this in a prev post but this thread is HUGE and I cant locate it....
What about the thermostat / coolant neck - it has a hose that goes to the water pump running off it stock. How did you get around that - is it modded or left alone....if modded - would you need one of those sent in as well ?
I read something about this in a prev post but this thread is HUGE and I cant locate it....
The hose/bung on thermostat was cut off, and blocked.
Can be welded, or just blocked with cap and clamp, your choice.
We then moved the coolant sensor in front, to next to the other one by drilling tapping bung that wasn't from factory.
Put a 90 where sensor was, then hose from that to water pump.
Is very easy actually.
Again more pics, instructions to follow detialing all this when we get it on marks car.
Can be welded, or just blocked with cap and clamp, your choice.
We then moved the coolant sensor in front, to next to the other one by drilling tapping bung that wasn't from factory.
Put a 90 where sensor was, then hose from that to water pump.
Is very easy actually.
Again more pics, instructions to follow detialing all this when we get it on marks car.
national84
Heavy breather
- Joined
- Jun 21, 2001
You send us the intercooler. We make the brackets, mod the neck, and make you an up-pipe, and piping from the turbo to the intercooler. As for the silicone hoses, we will suplpy the ones for all the 2.5" connections, you will need to get one from the compressor to the 2.5" tube (reason:there are too many different turbos out there for us to know what size everyone needs.)
As a bonus, it looks like you'll be able to run all the 86-87 shrouding for the i/c if you like.
PLEASE NOTE: WE ARE NOT RESPONSIBLE FOR CORRECTING ANY STRIPPED BUNGS IN YOUR INTERCOOLER< SO MAKE SURE THEY ARE GOOD< YOU"LL BE GETTING YOUR OWN BACK
Like Jeff said, that tube needs to be removed, and capped. I recommend a hack saw or cut off wheel, then use a rubber cap to plug the tube, held on by a clamp obviously, you could also use epoxy or JB weld. We welded ours, and then had leaks and had to mill it flat again, I think it is too thin to take the heat without warping. The TM kit had leak issues, I think the welding caused Jay's issues as well.
national84
Heavy breather
- Joined
- Jun 21, 2001
Rest at ease gentlemen, there will be video footage once we get a better tune on it, while it is impressive as is, we are experiencing some seriously low O2 readings,. And, until we put in a new fuel pump, and up the fuel presssure we don't want to break something
In about 5 steps we made a car that was already 10x better than stock 5x better than that, each tweak makes things better....I can't wait.
In about 5 steps we made a car that was already 10x better than stock 5x better than that, each tweak makes things better....I can't wait.
Time to let one more cat out of bag.
In my effort to get some good data and show what the intake can do, I have switched over to a 749 ecm. Mostly due to my syty background and knowing that ecm and how to tune, but also because I have come to hate MAF sensors with a passion.
Being Bruce has led the pack in this, I headed up to his house sunday to get the low down.
Drive up there required swapping MAF sensor 20miles outside of town.
Arrive, go to get food, MAF swap required again back to old one which now works good again.
By end of day syty (749) ecm is installed, 6 chips later car idles better than it ever did.
Did another chip tonight, and have rock solid idle, smooth as glass, and boost tuning is starting to come in now.
We did discover this thing is flowing some air.
To be fair I have not put the 86 ecm in yet, although I do have 2 here to try it.
I will also mention, anybody wanting to do the 749 conversion on a hotair buying an intake or not, I will help guide them anyway I can. I should have a chip that will work decent with stock injectors available also.
On intake status, we have 1 customer intake here for the first "production" run. All the material is ordered to build several pieces, with pics to soon be posted as things progress to hopefully clear up alot of confusion on what you get, need, etc.
Mike and I have a plan to eliminate all of this.
I am leaving in the morning for chicago tool show until friday, then again the 20th south until the 1st for my day job. So things will slow somewhat during this.
In my effort to get some good data and show what the intake can do, I have switched over to a 749 ecm. Mostly due to my syty background and knowing that ecm and how to tune, but also because I have come to hate MAF sensors with a passion.
Being Bruce has led the pack in this, I headed up to his house sunday to get the low down.
Drive up there required swapping MAF sensor 20miles outside of town.
Arrive, go to get food, MAF swap required again back to old one which now works good again.
By end of day syty (749) ecm is installed, 6 chips later car idles better than it ever did.
Did another chip tonight, and have rock solid idle, smooth as glass, and boost tuning is starting to come in now.
We did discover this thing is flowing some air.
To be fair I have not put the 86 ecm in yet, although I do have 2 here to try it.
I will also mention, anybody wanting to do the 749 conversion on a hotair buying an intake or not, I will help guide them anyway I can. I should have a chip that will work decent with stock injectors available also.
On intake status, we have 1 customer intake here for the first "production" run. All the material is ordered to build several pieces, with pics to soon be posted as things progress to hopefully clear up alot of confusion on what you get, need, etc.
Mike and I have a plan to eliminate all of this.
I am leaving in the morning for chicago tool show until friday, then again the 20th south until the 1st for my day job. So things will slow somewhat during this.
For $575 you send us your intake,86-87 plenum, and 86-87 Tb, we will send you a modified intake, plenum, modify your TB, and send it back to you. Your intake will return to you with a pipe made to go from turbo to intake. We will also make up a custom block to make your iac controller remote mount.
The list we have posted iss truly complete. The only piece I see that we neglected to list is the 86-87 throttle/tv bracket. But finding those shouldn't be too much trouble.
You will need gaskets obviously, but the 86-87 units will work for the plenum/tb/intake.
We have a guy working on an instruction sheet, which we will probably post here to make things easier.
I assure you there are no hidden costs here, that is what has taken us so long, we wanted this to be as bolt-on as possible.
Serious inquiries can email me at Mhardman6@insightbb.com I will be glad to give you my phone number to discuss full details.
I forgot to mention, due to the number of different turbo's available, we cannot supply a silicone hose from turbo to the tube that goes to the intake, so you'll need to get one of those yourself. The pipe is 2.5" od mandrel, so 86-87 turbos need to neck up, stock hotair turbo's neck down, pte turbos ....and so on.
__________________I highly recommend you read this entire thread before making a decision and call if your questions are not answered.
Modified Intake
"I will also mention, anybody wanting to do the 749 conversion on a hotair buying an intake or not, I will help guide them anyway I can. I should have a chip that will work decent with stock injectors available also."
OK, I have to ask the question, what is a 749 conversion? Is that the GMC series II ECM?
"I will also mention, anybody wanting to do the 749 conversion on a hotair buying an intake or not, I will help guide them anyway I can. I should have a chip that will work decent with stock injectors available also."
OK, I have to ask the question, what is a 749 conversion? Is that the GMC series II ECM?
749 is the ECM used in the GMC Syclone Typhoon. Is a speed density system, eliminated MAF sensor.
Can adjust fuel for up to 30 lbs of boost if needed, had most if not more stuff in it than FAST or similar. Just a little steeper learning curve to figure out how to adjust, but once that is overcome tuning is fairly easy.
My car is going on 3 weeks or so now, runs GREAT and still only at 10lbs of boost. It ran better than the stock ecm ever did, atleast for me.
Can adjust fuel for up to 30 lbs of boost if needed, had most if not more stuff in it than FAST or similar. Just a little steeper learning curve to figure out how to adjust, but once that is overcome tuning is fairly easy.
My car is going on 3 weeks or so now, runs GREAT and still only at 10lbs of boost. It ran better than the stock ecm ever did, atleast for me.
Modified Intake
So this can be picked up at a GM dealer or is it a kit from someone? What kind of wiring changes are required? What laptop program is needed to monitor engine specs? I like the idea of no MAF, because they always seem to go bad at the wrong time. Let's hear more about the 749 and what it takes to install it. If you have to burn chips it must not be a Gen II system. Keep up the good work.
So this can be picked up at a GM dealer or is it a kit from someone? What kind of wiring changes are required? What laptop program is needed to monitor engine specs? I like the idea of no MAF, because they always seem to go bad at the wrong time. Let's hear more about the 749 and what it takes to install it. If you have to burn chips it must not be a Gen II system. Keep up the good work.
84T-typeMike
Yes I am Crazy
- Joined
- May 14, 2004
Is there any track data?I have a hot-air,Buick specs were 15.4 @89 in the 1/4 mile.Intercooled cars were much faster stock.I have been checking into doing an 86/87 conversion.The tried and true.BUT I have been holding out waiting to see what happens here.I downloaded the movie clip of your hot air running.Did you take it to the track to see what it runs?I know you guy's said you weren't guaranteeing anything about performance but I think there should be something to help me decide.What you think?
ECM is available new, or used for about $50
The wiring requires a custom adaptor.
Thread here has link to pics and more info.
http://www.turbobuick.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=133956
The downside is YOU will need to make an adaptor, as one isn't available. Upside is the MAF sensor can be thrown away and I have a chip to get you 90% of the way there.
On the track note, eventually I wouldn't mind taking car to track, right now the tune is only decent to 10psi as I have the wastegate solenoid unplugged. After all the motor trouble I didn't want to run 15psi without being a bit cautious.
And although seat of pants isn't much, I think at 10psi it would better a 15 sec pass, although consider it just bench racing at this point.
We just got one intake 95% done last night and will have pics of a complete kit available soon. I am leaving in the morning for 2 weeks and won't be around to finish until Oct 1st.
I think when we get the pics of kit done, and some more data from my car it will become a no brainer.
The wiring requires a custom adaptor.
Thread here has link to pics and more info.
http://www.turbobuick.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=133956
The downside is YOU will need to make an adaptor, as one isn't available. Upside is the MAF sensor can be thrown away and I have a chip to get you 90% of the way there.
On the track note, eventually I wouldn't mind taking car to track, right now the tune is only decent to 10psi as I have the wastegate solenoid unplugged. After all the motor trouble I didn't want to run 15psi without being a bit cautious.
And although seat of pants isn't much, I think at 10psi it would better a 15 sec pass, although consider it just bench racing at this point.
We just got one intake 95% done last night and will have pics of a complete kit available soon. I am leaving in the morning for 2 weeks and won't be around to finish until Oct 1st.
I think when we get the pics of kit done, and some more data from my car it will become a no brainer.
national84
Heavy breather
- Joined
- Jun 21, 2001
The ecm can be retrieved from syclones and Typhoons, and turbo sunbird 4 cyl, from I believe 88-90. You need to make a jumper connector from the Buick wiring harness to the 749 harness, which means a lot of soldering and about $30 worth of connectors and wires. Jeff has the schematic for the changeover. If you can solder its not bad, just time consuming.
It can be data logged with turbo link, diacom, datamaster, etc, etc. If you do a search here on the board, you should find info about the process. And, yes it is OBD 1 old school tech.
The down side is that the Buick chipseveryone currently has will not work, obviously. You can call me if you want to discuss it further.
The car is only running at around 8-9 psi, until we get the chip dialed in better, I can tell you it runs better with each new chip, and as soon as the chip is done, we will be track testing,and taking it back to the dyno. We have the wastegate completely disconnected to achieve base boost only, we are trying to tune out a rich condition under boost and a lean codition at roll on launches. This is a tedious process,we have burned probably 12 chips already, but is necessary if people want real numbers from out test car. This whole problem is now complicated by the fact that Jeff has ben sent to Mexico for two weks on business. Once he gets back, the wideband 02 will be hooked up and we will finish the chip.
As we have posted earlier, the heart of the matter is that there are only 3 real differences between the hot air and intercooled cars
1. Turbo, the difference is only slight and is not really much f a factor, so we wil not get into that
2. The intercooler, which in stock form only allows a few degrees of extra timing and 2-3 psi more bost than the hotairs.
3. The intake, here is where the real difference occurs. The hotair intake is only about 75% efficient when used with 8445 heads, and the 86-87 is about 97%.
So, while I cannot garauntee the intake will make you run 13's it opens the door, if you add the right combo to it.
national84
Heavy breather
- Joined
- Jun 21, 2001
Looks like Jeff and I answered at the same time
Just a quick update, we finished the intercooler mod last night, the new neck loks almost stock, and will flow tons more air than the stock neck, which is tiny where it pipes into the turbo.
Maybe Jeff will post a pick sometime today.
Just a quick update, we finished the intercooler mod last night, the new neck loks almost stock, and will flow tons more air than the stock neck, which is tiny where it pipes into the turbo.
Maybe Jeff will post a pick sometime today.
Here are some pictures of the basic package and what you get.
Remember you send me a stock intake, 86/87 plenum, and 86/87 tb.
I will return you this.
http://s94691562.onlinehome.us/gallery/hotair/aau
More pics @
http://s94691562.onlinehome.us/gallery/hotair
That intake is bare, but we can powdercoat in black if you want also. Other colors can be discussed.
Last night we started making brackets for intercooled version. I must say it will be slick. Pics to come on that soon.
Full instructions will be soon also.
Remember you send me a stock intake, 86/87 plenum, and 86/87 tb.
I will return you this.
http://s94691562.onlinehome.us/gallery/hotair/aau
More pics @
http://s94691562.onlinehome.us/gallery/hotair
That intake is bare, but we can powdercoat in black if you want also. Other colors can be discussed.
Last night we started making brackets for intercooled version. I must say it will be slick. Pics to come on that soon.
Full instructions will be soon also.
