New 1987 Grand National Owner!

[SinisterSpool]

What a wealth of information, this forum looks amazing and the admins seem to be extremely knowledgeable. Really excited to be a part of this forum and even more excited to be a new Grand National owner. So here's my situation. I just inherited a near new 1987 Buick Grand National, less than 30,000 miles, it is equipped with the 3.8 SFI, digital dash, moon roof however my grandfather who owned the car and actually had a hand in building it (GM worker) opted out of the GN interior upgrades. The motor is out of the car right now and disassembled for rebuild, which was not my doing. So far the only work done is a port and polish on the cylinder heads as well as installed manley race valves and the motor is greased up really good to deter rust. Also it has a magnaflow exhaust coming out into dual 3" tips. I read the new owner thread set up on this intro page and decided that im going to comb through my gear and see what i can do to adhere to some of that information. So in the meantime any other info i should be aware of?

 

[NY Twin Turbo]

Welcome!

30,000 miles? Motor is out of the car? Are you going for the stock look? Or are you going to go balls-out!

Because if you want to go crazy you just met the right guy to chat with!

 

[Phoneguy]

Welcome to the dark side....
Tons of information here and great people.

Bryan

 

[SinisterSpool]

Welcome!

30,000 miles? Motor is out of the car? Are you going for the stock look? Or are you going to go balls-out!

Because if you want to go crazy you just met the right guy to chat with!

Yeah its just under 30,000, the motor is disassembled and the cylinders were all cleaned up now its loaded with grease to keep it clean. I would like to keep the stock look on the exterior and interior. However the engine compartment is a different story. The engine will have about 5k available for upgrades. Right now its looking like pistons/rods, timing chain, new larger turbo set up, injectors/chip, some additional electronics, and definitely some other pieces. Hope to have it done by fall of this year at the latest but shooting for late summer. What kind of recommendations do you have? I feel like i can realistically squeeze around 500 hp out of it with $5k, whats your take?

 

[SinisterSpool]

Welcome to the dark side....
Tons of information here and great people.

Bryan

Thank you, Im really excited to start moving forward with things.

 

[Phoneguy]

While you can accomplish your goal with 5 k , it may be short lived. The transmission will need attention as well as the converter. You need to address the fuel system to keep up with the new power too. Tires will be in your future as well. Power logger , scan master , gauges , brakes , it goes on , ALKY ?
Take the tune slowly up and keep the knock out of it. Good luck.

Bryan

 

[SinisterSpool]

While you can accomplish your goal with 5 k , it may be short lived. The transmission will need attention as well as the converter. You need to address the fuel system to keep up with the new power too. Tires will be in your future as well. Power logger , scan master , gauges , brakes , it goes on , ALKY ?
Take the tune slowly up and keep the knock out of it. Good luck.

Bryan

Thanks for the advice. Its funny you say that about the transmission and converter because i was scoping it out this morning and asking myself why i dont just pull it and send it to a tranny shop to get a rebuild and some hardened parts. Absolutely fuel system as well, been looking at after market pumps and hot kits. I cant believe the tires still had air in them when i got the car, but there not for linking up with the pavement in any case. Any tire recommendations for street applications? I also have a scan master and have all my buddies hunting me down a power logger. For gauges i have a pillar mount boost and oil pressure gauge but like the console mounted gauges better so that may change. As far as brakes i haven't even began to delve in, looked at an aftermarket baer setup but thats it, any suggestions? Alky is a given, i come from top alcohol drag so its almost a necessity, ive heard alot of stuff about meth injection too, hmm....

 

[NY Twin Turbo]

Yeah its just under 30,000, the motor is disassembled and the cylinders were all cleaned up now its loaded with grease to keep it clean. I would like to keep the stock look on the exterior and interior. However the engine compartment is a different story. The engine will have about 5k available for upgrades. Right now its looking like pistons/rods, timing chain, new larger turbo set up, injectors/chip, some additional electronics, and definitely some other pieces. Hope to have it done by fall of this year at the latest but shooting for late summer. What kind of recommendations do you have? I feel like i can realistically squeeze around 500 hp out of it with $5k, whats your take?

I say get the motor assembled with the new internals and the basic stock bolt-ons first. Meaning, use the stock turbo, headers, intercooler, so-on. Don't get ahead of yourself. Fuel system upgrades are always good. You may end up putting together a mis-matched combination of parts. Get it to run well, and then start adding the cool stuff to make more power. If this is your first Turbo Buick you may want to slow the learning curve a little.

If it were me I would jump into major mods from day one! But I've already made tons of mistakes over 20 years. Now I would just go for blood!

Every step you take should work towards your goal. Occasionally, you may buy a component your not ready for. That's OK too. Just know performance will suffer until you get the supporting items. But testing and tuning along the way lets you know if your taking the right steps.

Example, I had a giant front mount intercooler when all I had was a stock turbo. It took about a week to fill the volume of the intercooler before the boost got to the intake! I knew I was going to grow into it. So, for a while, I tolerated it.

Good luck. Now rob a bank to pay for this stuff.

 

[SinisterSpool]

I say get the motor assembled with the new internals and the basic stock bolt-ons first. Meaning, use the stock turbo, headers, intercooler, so-on. Don't get ahead of yourself. Fuel system upgrades are always good. You may end up putting together a mis-matched combination of parts. Get it to run well, and then start adding the cool stuff to make more power. If this is your first Turbo Buick you may want to slow the learning curve a little.

If it were me I would jump into major mods from day one! But I've already made tons of mistakes over 20 years. Now I would just go for blood!

Every step you take should work towards your goal. Occasionally, you may buy a component your not ready for. That's OK too. Just know performance will suffer until you get the supporting items. But testing and tuning along the way lets you know if your taking the right steps.

Example, I had a giant front mount intercooler when all I had was a stock turbo. It took about a week to fill the volume of the intercooler before the boost got to the intake! I knew I was going to grow into it. So, for a while, I tolerated it.

Good luck. Now rob a bank to pay for this stuff.

Advice taken! I will definitely ease into it all. I put my my new internal in and upgrade the fuel system. A couple questions:
-When upgrading fuel system what size injectors should i move to and should i get the chip to match?
-Would you advise i work out the common bugs listed on the new GN owners must read at the top of the new members page that was put up by the admin?
-Should i downgrade the manley race flo valves that are on the heads now even though they have been ported and polished?
Thanks for the advice i appreciate it.

 

[NY Twin Turbo]

Advice taken! I will definitely ease into it all. I put my my new internal in and upgrade the fuel system. A couple questions:
-When upgrading fuel system what size injectors should i move to and should i get the chip to match?
-Would you advise i work out the common bugs listed on the new GN owners must read at the top of the new members page that was put up by the admin?
-Should i downgrade the manley race flo valves that are on the heads now even though they have been ported and polished?
Thanks for the advice i appreciate it.

Hold on. How fast do you want to go? 10's? Everyone seems to wan't to go low 10's.

If so go with the pump/injectors/filter/fuel lines/regulator to do that now. You need the chip to go with that. But there's more to that as well. Think about engine management as a whole. MAF translator/XFI/upgraded stock ECM?

Definitely do all the standard "Spring Cleaning", "Recipe", and "Set-up" stuff.

Don't downgrade anything on your heads. Later you will probably be using iron heads prepped by one of our Buick-Pro vendors or aftermarket heads.

Just remember, there are so many little things between all the big things.

 

[2QUICK2B6]

yes low 10's is the new high 10's lol

 

[SinisterSpool]

Hold on. How fast do you want to go? 10's? Everyone seems to wan't to go low 10's.

If so go with the pump/injectors/filter/fuel lines/regulator to do that now. You need the chip to go with that. But there's more to that as well. Think about engine management as a whole. MAF translator/XFI/upgraded stock ECM?

Definitely do all the standard "Spring Cleaning", "Recipe", and "Set-up" stuff.

Don't downgrade anything on your heads. Later you will probably be using iron heads prepped by one of our Buick-Pro vendors or aftermarket heads.

Just remember, there are so many little things between all the big things.

10's would satisfy me for now
I cant say that i honestly have too many expectations because i dont know the car which is why i really like your advice to just take it one step at a time. I definitely see how much potential it has but i dont fully understand everything it takes to get there yet. I justifiably want to go fast hahaha!
More questions
-Any recommendations on new internals? What would you use from your stock parts and what would you purchase aftermarket?
-Also recommendations for all of the things you listed above, electronics/fuel system?
-Should i run braided fuel lines or are the stock adequate?
-My stock fuel rail and regulator are currently MIA, any advice?

 

[2QUICK2B6]

6768 turbo scanmaster 340 walbro fuel pump 3200 stall converter 80lb inj ... turbo tweak chip ... drag radials 275/60/ 15 mt radials

 

[2QUICK2B6]

I for got front mount intercooler an ...... a lot of passes

 

[NY Twin Turbo]

10's would satisfy me for now
I cant say that i honestly have too many expectations because i dont know the car which is why i really like your advice to just take it one step at a time. I definitely see how much potential it has but i dont fully understand everything it takes to get there yet. I justifiably want to go fast hahaha!
More questions
-Any recommendations on new internals? What would you use from your stock parts and what would you purchase aftermarket?
-Also recommendations for all of the things you listed above, electronics/fuel system?
-Should i run braided fuel lines or are the stock adequate?
-My stock fuel rail and regulator are currently MIA, any advice?

 

[NY Twin Turbo]

10's would satisfy me for now
I cant say that i honestly have too many expectations because i dont know the car which is why i really like your advice to just take it one step at a time. I definitely see how much potential it has but i dont fully understand everything it takes to get there yet. I justifiably want to go fast hahaha!
More questions
-Any recommendations on new internals? What would you use from your stock parts and what would you purchase aftermarket?
-Also recommendations for all of the things you listed above, electronics/fuel system?
-Should i run braided fuel lines or are the stock adequate?
-My stock fuel rail and regulator are currently MIA, any advice?

Sorry, I hit the post button to soon on the last one.

Anyway, I'm not the right guy to ask about engine internals. Others will chime in on that. My long block was built profesionaly by RPE as per my power output request.

I agree with Scott (2QUICK2B6) on your fuel system requirements. Injectors should be 80's. But again, I tend to go a little to far. I like Aeromotive pumps and regulators. Also, I like to upgrade to larger braided lines. You certainly may not need this stuff.

A stock fuel rail is fine. Champion makes a billet replacement I think.

Engine management......Lots of debate here. For me, I wouldn't do anything without a FAST XFI. I would put one on a stock Buick first thing. You DON'T NEED XFI. I think there are plenty of less expensive options you could get into. I know the FAST system now so my opinion is biased. Stick with a chip to get it running.

But again, Don't go to far to fast. Along the way you are going to find you need supporting mods for reliability and safety. New radiator/fans/tranny cooler/gauges/a roll bar?

Just, get the thing together..........and get it to run. Tune out your desire to through stuff on it for now.

 

[NY Twin Turbo]

One more thing......What you really need is patients. These cars are amazing performers. After all these years they still hold there own against some of the world's greatest. They can be mildly modified to run times against European and Asian exotics. But that takes choice upgrades and knowledge. It doesn't take the 100K it will cost you to buy a GTR. Patients and knowledge are cheaper than mistakes and broken parts.

​

 

[Phoneguy]

Patience is key with these things! There have been many head gaskets blown by over zealous tuning. I have been there myself.
I wouldn't go any bigger than a 6466 or a 6766 on the turbo. Both are capable of 900 + HP and will spool faster than the 6768 . The 6466 has been 6.30's in the eighth mile that I know of and possibly faster.

Bryan

 

[m3x1c0]

One more thing......What you really need is patients. These cars are amazing performers. After all these years they still hold there own against some of the world's greatest. They can be mildly modified to run times against European and Asian exotics. But that takes choice upgrades and knowledge. It doesn't take the 100K it will cost you to buy a GTR. Patients and knowledge are cheaper than mistakes and broken parts.

​

Are you the guy with the ridiculously trick twin turbo that was at Cecil last year? I think I recognize that engine in your profile pic!

Oh and welcome OP!

 

[NY Twin Turbo]

Are you the guy with the ridiculously trick twin turbo that was at Cecil last year? I think I recognize that engine in your profile pic!

Oh and welcome OP!

Um, I guess. Glad you liked it. Thank you.