Need tuning with alky advice...

[87gnguy]

I installed a Razors kit last month then my transmission went out, now my ring gear in my rearend is shot but that's getting replaced this weekend. So, I haven't had much of a chance to do any tuning. I've been reading up on the tuning with alky thread and pretty much get how to do it and in my little bit of playing around on the street, I'm getting 0 knock but the car just doesn't seem to be pulling like it should. I've got buddies with the same combo as me but they seem to be faster. I will also add that I'm working with a stock unopened motor with a stock cam.

My question is about timing and fuel. Razors kit says to put the timing at 21 degrees which I did. I've got 15% fuel taken out above 3000 rpm and my alky is on 5 1/2. I'm running about 26 pounds of boost but my buddy with virtually my same setup is running 25 and is faster than me. So, I figure it must be in the timing vs. fuel. He is running a roller cam but I wouldn't think it would make THAT much of a difference (he pulled about 4 car lengths on me before I shut it down). He had 18% fuel taken out and alky on 5 1/2 but his timing is set at 18%. He was told that with a bigger cam his car moves more air therefore heating up the cylinders and to lower the timing from 21* to 18* because he was getting knock. I've also read where the timing should be set to 25*.

I was also reading where the smaller turbos like the timing to be higher. So does that mean I should lower my timing to 18* also? So far everything I've done to my car I've gotten 0 knock. But I'd like to be faster and more efficient at a lower boost so I don't destroy my motor. I should also add that my O2s are between 804-850 right now with 26-27 pounds of boost with the alky at 5 1/2 and fuel taken out at 15% above 3000 RPMs and we are tuning using the GEN II. My mods are in my signature and I guess I'm asking where should I start? I would love to get a wideband and data logger software but right now funds just aren't letting me. In the last 6 weeks, I bought alky, then shortly after that, my transmission went out. I got that fixed then my rearend started whining and found out my ring gear is wearing out where I guess something inside went wrong. So, I'm about $2000 into this car in the last 6 weeks so wideband and dataloggers will have to wait...

Any help would be appreciated.
Thanks,
Casey

 

[Razor]

I installed a Razors kit last month then my transmission went out, now my ring gear in my rearend is shot but that's getting replaced this weekend. So, I haven't had much of a chance to do any tuning. I've been reading up on the tuning with alky thread and pretty much get how to do it and in my little bit of playing around on the street, I'm getting 0 knock but the car just doesn't seem to be pulling like it should. I've got buddies with the same combo as me but they seem to be faster. I will also add that I'm working with a stock unopened motor with a stock cam.

My question is about timing and fuel. Razors kit says to put the timing at 21 degrees which I did. I've got 15% fuel taken out above 3000 rpm and my alky is on 5 1/2. I'm running about 26 pounds of boost but my buddy with virtually my same setup is running 25 and is faster than me. So, I figure it must be in the timing vs. fuel. He is running a roller cam but I wouldn't think it would make THAT much of a difference (he pulled about 4 car lengths on me before I shut it down). He had 18% fuel taken out and alky on 5 1/2 but his timing is set at 18%. He was told that with a bigger cam his car moves more air therefore heating up the cylinders and to lower the timing from 21* to 18* because he was getting knock. I've also read where the timing should be set to 25*.

I was also reading where the smaller turbos like the timing to be higher. So does that mean I should lower my timing to 18* also? So far everything I've done to my car I've gotten 0 knock. But I'd like to be faster and more efficient at a lower boost so I don't destroy my motor. I should also add that my O2s are between 804-850 right now with 26-27 pounds of boost with the alky at 5 1/2 and fuel taken out at 15% above 3000 RPMs and we are tuning using the GEN II. My mods are in my signature and I guess I'm asking where should I start? I would love to get a wideband and data logger software but right now funds just aren't letting me. In the last 6 weeks, I bought alky, then shortly after that, my transmission went out. I got that fixed then my rearend started whining and found out my ring gear is wearing out where I guess something inside went wrong. So, I'm about $2000 into this car in the last 6 weeks so wideband and dataloggers will have to wait...

Any help would be appreciated.
Thanks,
Casey

First thing.. roller cam will make a difference. My TTA went from 10.90's down to 10.50's. How can it not.. valve lift goes up low .400's to mid .500's. Power on these motors is turbo, heads, cam.

As to tuning decisions.. the street is not the place. Especially when you dont have the proper tools like a wideband and datalogger. As you dont know if your air fuel is actually 9.5:1 or 11:1. Timing decisions need to be made on solid numbers. Not what you feel the car is doing. This is where running the car at a track you can view changes to O2 numbers and make adjustments as they are needed and affect HP. What one car does and what your car does is apples to oranges. Anyone been around these cars long enough can tell you its all about combination and state of tune.

Exhuast, leak down, camshaft, air intake, etc all play a major role. That stock cam takes way more boost vs a roller cam to achieve the same power.So if your buddy is at 26 PSI.. you'll need 30. But before you keep cranking boost up.. you need air fuel numbers to make that type of decision.

At a track I can tune using a narrow band O2. This is done looking at MPH at the 1/8 and 1/4. And its pickup thereof. Changes in airfuel that yield greater MPH on both ends=positive.

On the street you cant tell if the car goes 91 in the 1/8 or 94 in the 1/8.

Keep your tuning and boost sensible until you have a good grasp on what the motor is telling you. Nobody goes fast overnight especially when they have limitations. There is an old saying want an easy 10 second car... build an 8 second one.

 

[Tristansgn]

Glad I read this

Thanks for posting that question, and thanks for that response. I'm currently installing that new kit and will have to start tuning my car as well, I haven't had to post too much because I'm not in that stage yet, but this helps a lot!

 

[bison]

Pay for some dyno time. You are likely way too rich and a verified 22* advance will make considerably more power than the 18* suggested. Probably about 45whp more. Is your converter locked? Between tune and locking the converter id bet you will put car lengths on him regardless of cam. Ive never seen a cam by itself do much for one of these unless the lobes were shot.