Need advice for a friend

[Underboost]

+1 SYTECH

That car was Amazing! A head gasket is nothing. As SYTECH said the car went from 11's to mid 9's. I would say with over 200+ runs with not one issue. That motor you have is one of the strongest well built engines I have yet to see. If there was an Engine that you could compare to the Energizer Bunny this is the one.

 

[scot w.]

+ 2 SYTECH !! Well said and Well explained.

That car is Very well known along with the previous owner.

A head gasket is a peice of cake to replace and MUCH cheaper than a windowed block!!

Scot W.

 

[salvageV6]

Well if it was "only" headgaskets I'd like to know who quoted the $7K price?

 

[fastlikeanascar]

No one wants to invest 20K+ only to have your new dream car blow a head gasket after only 4 runs

This car was sold as a proven 9 second, stockblock stroker

The new owner knew the history of the car

The new owner had every right to take the car to his own shop to verify condition before making an offer to purchase

He could have done a compression test, he could have done a leakdown test, he could have gone to the track and watched the car run, all before deciding to buy

I have known the previous owner for over a year and have watched the car in question out at the local tracks go from 11's, to 10's, down to consistent mid to hi 9's

The car was a beast, and as such, was pushed hard each time it went out

Anderson built the motor in question and the motor lived up to the Anderson pedigree

How long should a built motor last? Who knows

1 run, 10 runs, 300 runs, each car and each driver is different.

Depends upon to many variables

Fuel octane, altitude, tune, air / fuel ratio, boost, timing, driver experience, track conditions, fuel delivery, spark, etc.

In the past 5 years I've had (and raced) a Ford Lightning, a Syclone, a Typhoon, a twin turbo Callaway Corvette, an 87 GN, GNX #485, and currently an 86 GN.

If you push these cars hard, they will eventually break or wear out to the point that they need to be re-built

Do I enjoy replacing parts?...hell no, but if I want to play, I'm gonna pay! eventually

Your lucky, head gasket replacement on a non-AC / heater car is easy compared to a stocker

You bought a proven used race car that had well over 40K put into it over the years and unfortunately one of the safety valves (head gaskets) went out shortly after you took ownership and made a couple of runs

While it sucks to spend money on top of money, atleast you got to break the motor down enough to discover any other worn, wearing, or broken parts.

If this car went mid nines in its current condition (as your friend implies "was broken or damaged before you bought it"), think of how fast it MAY be once everything is freshened up by Anderson again.

There was no shady dealing here, no one tried to hide anything, and the previous owner is well known and respected in the buick community

The previous owner has no obligation to pay or even offer to pay for half of any repairs for damage that was incurred after the sale, unless that was part of the original sales agreement

Not to many RACE cars are sold with a warranty, so don't cry foul just because of the unfortunate timing of the blown headgaskets.

I thought my car was fast, but my car will never see the 9's. I may have hit 10.72 at 125 mph but the car you bought scared the hell out of me. There was no comparison to the in your face power difference

You got one hell of a proven race car for a great price. Get it fixed to your liking and lets see you push it to the low 9's. Learn the car, clean it, wrench on it, discover any and all faults, fix them according to your schedule and budget

Best of luck with your re-build, and post up some pictures of your time slips when you hit your 1st deep 9

Regards,

Ray

Come on bro do you think I would take time to post about a blown head gasket ? do you think the whole motor would have to go back to andersons for a blown HG & since when does a blown HG cost $7000 to fix !?

here are the problem
* Scorched Block
* Blown HG
* Cracked Head..

& not on 4 passes on 1 !!!!
in which my boy ran a 11.7 1/4 with a 2.6 60ft

you know what your right he shoulda had the car checked out, It had stripped head bolts that were suppose to just be exhaust leaks, along with other problems..

But no he was to damn excited, thinkin he was getting a good deal..

so you can fault him for not getting the car checked out , thats fesible.

But you or anyone else tht thinks this will be chalked as a total loss bumped there head on a roll cage..

& Honestly your buddy being well known and respected in the buick community is irrelevant as the car was not purchased from the buick community & so they cant be held liable, But your friend can..

 

[87granny]

Well that explains the 7k estimate good luck with what you guys end up doing

 

[nordy racer]

Come on bro do you think I would take time to post about a blown head gasket ? do you think the whole motor would have to go back to andersons for a blown HG & since when does a blown HG cost $7000 to fix !?

here are the problem
* Scorched Block
* Blown HG
* Cracked Head..

& not on 4 passes on 1 !!!!
in which my boy ran a 11.7 1/4 with a 2.6 60ft

you know what your right he shoulda had the car checked out, It had stripped head bolts that were suppose to just be exhaust leaks, along with other problems..

But no he was to damn excited, thinkin he was getting a good deal..

so you can fault him for not getting the car checked out , thats fesible.

But you or anyone else tht thinks this will be chalked as a total loss bumped there head on a roll cage..

& Honestly your buddy being well known and respected in the buick community is irrelevant as the car was not purchased from the buick community & so they cant be held liable, But your friend can..

the new owner was giving a ride in the car at the time of sale (due to my tags being on the car at point of sale) and the car was driven after the sale on the streets and at your local strip MORE then 1 time. the new owner was given the information that the car COULD have had a lifted head due to small bubbles in the water and that was why i re-torque the heads for him. at no time did the car show any signs that there was a BLOWEN headgasket or a CRACK HEAD (smoking, creamy oil in the pan or dip stick, or no even running). he could have easly stated that he did not want the car. i also stated the the tune should be checked and updated due to the cooler air up in Northern CA then in Southern CA before racing. i have talked to the new owner may times since this event happen.

 

[Grumpy]

If you push these cars hard, they will eventually break or wear out to the point that they need to be re-built

Regards,

Ray

yup !! especially a 9 sec car !!! .. We had a lot of runs and street miles on my motor in Melissa's GN .. Thing runs awesome !! We did take it apart last winter .. Looked good so we just freshened it up and called it a day .
Oh... It isn't a matter on "IF" it breaks its just "WHEN" it does sorry thats just part of the game.. don't want to play that game run 10#s of boost and just drive it like an old lady Def sucks it happened BUT thats life in the fast lane :biggrin:

 

[ngc414]

Oh... It isn't a matter on "IF" it breaks its just "WHEN" it does sorry thats just part of the game.. don't want to play that game run 10#s of boost and just drive it like an old lady Def sucks it happened BUT thats life in the fast lane :biggrin:[/QUOTE]

Thats exactly what I was thinking.

 

[stack1]

Thats exactly what I was thinking.

Would you be thinking the same thing if it happened to you? Everyone agrees that the previous owner is under no obligation to do anything. The new owner should have had it checked out but he didn't. What if he had? Would the seller have dropped the price? The real question here is does the previous owner think that this damage was caused by the new owner? If he thinks the new owner did the damage, then don't do anything. If he thinks that it was in that condition at the time of purchase (even if it were unknown) then some common ground should be met.

 

[ngc414]

Would you be thinking the same thing if it happened to you? Everyone agrees that the previous owner is under no obligation to do anything. The new owner should have had it checked out but he didn't. What if he had? Would the seller have dropped the price? The real question here is does the previous owner think that this damage was caused by the new owner? If he thinks the new owner did the damage, then don't do anything. If he thinks that it was in that condition at the time of purchase (even if it were unknown) then some common ground should be met.

First off I agree that it does suck when something like this happens. I simply said I agreed with the statment posted by another member. I see what your saying. If the seller is a honest guy maybe he will work something out, but if the seller was shady enough to sell a damaged car in the first place, I doubt he will admitt it. Then again maybe the seller was not aware of the problem. I agree it would be worth contacting him at least. What if it happened to me? A couple years ago I bought a very clean low mileage 300zx Twin turbo, within a couple days It developed a knock. I was pissed, but knew it was a 17 year old car. I bit the bullet and found a new engine on ebay, I replaced the engine myself and drove the car for a couple years. My musatang is mostly a strip car, I have turned every bolt on that car at least 3 times. I have blown several headgaskets, busted trannys, split pistons, and gone through 2 302 blocks a 306 block and am currenty on my 3rd year runng a 351 block soon to be a 393 stroker. My mustang runs high 10s. I dont see how anyone can buy a 10 second car and be surprised to break something or blow a headgasket. When I bought my Turbo-T I decided to keep it mostly stock because I wanted to enjoy the car without headaches. Honestly if I didnt have the means to work on my own car I would never consider buying an older car or modified car. The maintenance and or repairs would not be worth it. I do almost all my own work on all my cars, if I didnt I would buy a honda and never visit another drag strip.

 

[Grumpy]

Would you be thinking the same thing if it happened to you?

Ill throw my two cents in.. simple answer...YES .. come on these don't live forever !! Melissa's mid 11 car she had for years and years rarely missed a beat!! Her new (well 2 years old) set up in the 9s @ 138+ in street trim has been very dependable.. We have had stupid stuff break bit instead of posting a 10 page thread about it we fix it and have it running while others are crying about it for a week all part of the game :biggrin: Oh and it IS goin to happen to us to!! just a matter of time

 

[stunnin6]

you should have had a shop do a leak down and compression test amongst other inspections, when your going to put down that many pesos, it's money well spent, good luck

 

[SYTECH]

How Does An Engine Re-Build Equal A Total loss?

Mr. Fastlikeanascar,

Your friend bought a Used Race Car & Trailer combination for a very good price. It was not sold as brand new, or even as newly rebuilt. It was used, it was running real, real strong and it was never portrayed as anything other than "what you see is what you get"

Luckily he has you around to assist with wrenching on the car and working out his current problems.

Thats what the Buick Community is all about.

We help each other out, not only for friendship but also to save money by not going to the Indy's or dealerships

We all know how much it can cost to have a motor rebuilt the RIGHT way. The motor in that car can easily top that $7000 mark IF it goes to bare block and is completely gone through and refreshed with top quality components. You try to cut corners while trying to run 9's and you will be spending that $7000 more times than once

That proposed rebuild cost doesn't mean he has a total loss of his $20K+ investment. What about the car, the 400 tranny, the suspension, the brake system, the FAST system, the fueling system, the Big Turbo, the front mount, the aluminum radiator, the built rear end, the trailer, etc., etc., etc.

1. Head gaskets are a couple hundred bucks (for the good ones)
2. A cracked Aluminum GN1 Head can be repaired and pressure checked for another couple hundred bucks
3. Scourched block can also be repaired or machined down if necessary

You make it seem like we're a bunch of SoCal con men, little dicked, short bus riding hicks that go out of our way to screw over a fellow Buick lover for his hard earned money

We all feel the hard times and no one wants to lose any money on a sale or a bad purchase

I know all about the excitement bug. I've bought & sold 77 vehicles over the past 20 years. We've all felt that compulsive desire to buy it right now, and I know all to well about the Oh $hit, why is there white smoke coming from my exhaust and who spilled the marbles down my valve cover feeling too.

Nordy had nothing but great intentions towards selling this car to your friend. It was real hard for him to part with a vehicle that had been in his life for as many years as it was.

Chalk this up to preventative maintenance towards sure to happen future repair costs

Have you and your friend trailer the car back down to Socal and I will personally help him work on the car as needed to get it back up and running. I'll dedicate my labor and tool use at no cost to him because that is what the SoCal Buick Community is all about

Regards,

Ray

 

[Grumpy]

I know all about the excitement bug. I've bought & sold 77 vehicles over the past 20 years. We've all felt that compulsive desire to buy it right now, and I know all to well about the Oh $hit, why is there white smoke coming from my exhaust and who spilled the marbles down my valve cover feeling too.


Regards,

Ray

Damm Ray .. I thought you were talking about me at my old age I have finally got the "that compulsive desire to buy it right now" under control !! Talk about a BAD HABIT !!

 

[d90dan]

Okay my buddy asked me to post up & get advice on what some of you guys might think is fair..
"

So we sent the car to the best buick shop we could find @ least within 400 miles of us.. after pulling the motor apart they stated that the head gasket was already blown, that there was no way he could've caused tht damage on that one run.. the block was worped etc.

They also stated that they cant be positive but this was basically a quick fix to make the car drivable to be able to sell it...

Any datalog's?
A cracked head could be the a small crack between the plug hole and seat, or it could be split in half! Scorched block could be complete junk or just need to be decked. Have you seen the damage yourself?

Personally I would pickup the car and take it home. Send the motor to a builder that has built a lot of FAST 109's before. While the motor's getting freshened go through EVERYTHING. Fuel system, wiring, flow/clean injectors, etc..... Figure out why it torched that hole.

As far as whats fair.
Well it's a race car and **** happens. That being said, really unfortunate that it happened right after you bought it. If you really think the P.O. purposefully screwed you, what do you expect to get from him at this point? All you can really do is move forward.
I know not very helpful.

BTW, pretty cool of Ray offering to help rebuild.

 

[JOHNDEEREGN]

Mr. Fastlikeanascar,

Your friend bought a Used Race Car & Trailer combination for a very good price. It was not sold as brand new, or even as newly rebuilt. It was used, it was running real, real strong and it was never portrayed as anything other than "what you see is what you get"

Luckily he has you around to assist with wrenching on the car and working out his current problems.

Thats what the Buick Community is all about.

We help each other out, not only for friendship but also to save money by not going to the Indy's or dealerships

We all know how much it can cost to have a motor rebuilt the RIGHT way. The motor in that car can easily top that $7000 mark IF it goes to bare block and is completely gone through and refreshed with top quality components. You try to cut corners while trying to run 9's and you will be spending that $7000 more times than once

That proposed rebuild cost doesn't mean he has a total loss of his $20K+ investment. What about the car, the 400 tranny, the suspension, the brake system, the FAST system, the fueling system, the Big Turbo, the front mount, the aluminum radiator, the built rear end, the trailer, etc., etc., etc.

1. Head gaskets are a couple hundred bucks (for the good ones)
2. A cracked Aluminum GN1 Head can be repaired and pressure checked for another couple hundred bucks
3. Scourched block can also be repaired or machined down if necessary

You make it seem like we're a bunch of SoCal con men, little dicked, short bus riding hicks that go out of our way to screw over a fellow Buick lover for his hard earned money

We all feel the hard times and no one wants to lose any money on a sale or a bad purchase

I know all about the excitement bug. I've bought & sold 77 vehicles over the past 20 years. We've all felt that compulsive desire to buy it right now, and I know all to well about the Oh $hit, why is there white smoke coming from my exhaust and who spilled the marbles down my valve cover feeling too.

Nordy had nothing but great intentions towards selling this car to your friend. It was real hard for him to part with a vehicle that had been in his life for as many years as it was.

Chalk this up to preventative maintenance towards sure to happen future repair costs

Have you and your friend trailer the car back down to Socal and I will personally help him work on the car as needed to get it back up and running. I'll dedicate my labor and tool use at no cost to him because that is what the SoCal Buick Community is all about

Regards,

Ray

WOW RAY-

This is the kind of people we need in the Buick Community! Great stand up offer! Thanks Ray!

 

[fastlikeanascar]

Okay my buddy asked me to post up & get advice on what some of you guys might think is fair..

He recently bought a GN from a member For lets say upwards of $20,000 I wont say who he is or what car he bought because he is not sure how he wants to handle the situation..

The car was suppose to be well built by a well know Buick performance shop which seller had receipts to back up..

Long story short the car blew a head gasket on a high 11 sec pass which should be nothing based on the fact tht this car is suppose to be capable of low 10's mid 9's... We just could not figure out what went wrong or why it would have done this.. " No adjustments were made to cars tuning what so ever. this also happen with no knock "

So we sent the car to the best buick shop we could find @ least within 400 miles of us.. after pulling the motor apart they stated that the head gasket was already blown, that there was no way he could've caused tht damage on that one run.. the block was worped etc.

They also stated that they cant be positive but this was basically a quick fix to make the car drivable to be able to sell it...

My ? is what would you do if you basically dropped $20,000 + & got to drive a car twice . once on the street & one track run & then some1 tells you
" Man you got Burned "

" Did I forget to Mention They quated $7000 to fix the motor.


My suggestion was park that Mf'er on his front lawn.. now thats me & thats how I handle business, times are to hard to be getting ripped off.

It's Like this I dont care what type of guy Mike is, I'm sure he's a great guy.
But I dont build motors & neither does my friend, we didnt just look @ it & say oh you got F**kEd, He was told he got Fu@@ed

We sent the car to the shop & they said from inspecting it that it wasnt possible that it was caused by the new owner.. They said that it was already blown So yeah I guess he torqued down a head on a blown HG and sold the car...

Shame on the buyer for not checking it out, But damn did he buy the car of craigslist No he bought the car off some1 that you would vouch for either way just like your doing now..

My friend kept asking me what I thought & I told him what I would do just like I told every1 in this thread, Call the guy & talk to him. now how that went I'll leave between them..

Read the original I never said Nordy Racer sold My boy A P.O.S Never not once said his name or refered directly to what car it was..

Did saying the motor went bad throw up a flag !?
Because for some reason I got numerous Pm's about what car it was & etc..
from some of your local So.cal Buddies..

It's a great gesture for you to offer to help fix the car thats stellar, But whatever the buyer decides to do I will totally back him like I'm sure you would back your friend...

& I dont care what any of you guys say about biting the bullit as much as I see people on here talking about taking people to court, Its just a difference in a matter of where you hold your court :biggrin:

 

[TurboDave]

We sent the car to the shop & they said from inspecting it that it wasnt possible that it was caused by the new owner.. They said that it was already blown So yeah I guess he torqued down a head on a blown HG and sold the car...

:biggrin:

I don't care how good a shop claims to be, I don't understan how they could make such a blanket statement! What do they have, some kind of crystal ball? Some things you can look at and say, ya that was happening over time, or it just happened, etc. Head gaskets? not so for the most part. I've seen so many there's no counting, and they all were somewhat different, some mild, some BAD. But for the most part, the owners knew exactly when it happened.

I dispute the fact they could make a call like that. I'm betting they were telling the new owner what he wanted to hear.

 

[Grumpy]

I dispute the fact they could make a call like that. I'm betting they were telling the new owner what he wanted to hear.

X2 !! like a case of the "woulda, coulda, shoulda's"

 

[ngc414]

X2 !! like a case of the "woulda, coulda, shoulda's"

X3