Mega KR, runs lean, can't figure it out.

[evil666]

This is the problem on my brother's GN that we can't figure out. On a roll on kick down at about 40 mph, the car gets 58-60 kr and the o2 are 68 to 65. As he keeps the car floored the kr start to go away, but on the initial shot the kr are very high. When he floors the car it feels as if the car doesn't wan't to take off and gives these little shots and when it shifts to third the car pulls great. The tranny has been rebuilt but could the torque convertor cause this type of problem? The fact the car is running lean I really can't figure it out, he put a new walbro fuel pump with 60lbs motron injectors calibrated with a 93 and 100 armstrong chips and hot wire kit, smc 100% methanol injection adjusted to max pump speed, and 20 to 21 lbs of boost.

Help will be greatly appreciated, thanks we are really puzzled.
Marco.

My brother’s 87 Grand National t-top (92 000 km)
Stock block with trw pistons and 30 over, stock heads, 210-205 lunati cam, PT61 Turbo, 65 mm kenne bell TB and plenum, 9 inch 3000-3200 stall art carr convertor, 22 ½ boost, 94 octane with 100% methanol with smc alk injection, thdp, hooker 2 ½ exhaust, 60 lbs motron injectors, Armstrong 100 chip, ESP front mount IC, 26 BY 10 M/T ET STREEET TIRES, 3800 LBS race weight.
BEST ET= 1.60 60FT- 7.47 1/8- 11.80 ET-113 MPH
BEST MPH= 1.72 60FT – 11.87 ET AT 114,74 MPH

 

[turbo39151]

What's the fuel pressue at?

 

[evil666]

What's the fuel pressue at?

The fuel pressure is 40 with the vacuum line on.

 

[Quick6'n'-K.C.]

Which meth pump?
Round bottle, square bottle, or new with stock resivior with external pump?
Are you priming the pump before you get after it?
Have you checked the pump pressure of the meth kit?
Is it actually a meth pump?
Progressive controller or old standard controller?
Is there a checkvalve in the line leading to the uppipe?
What is the starting point when the meth starts spraying from a roll?

I think i forgot about 20 questions related to your issue.

BW

 

[evil666]

Which meth pump?
Round bottle, square bottle, or new with stock resivior with external pump?
Are you priming the pump before you get after it?
Have you checked the pump pressure of the meth kit?
Is it actually a meth pump?
Progressive controller or old standard controller?
Is there a checkvalve in the line leading to the uppipe?
What is the starting point when the meth starts spraying from a roll?

I think i forgot about 20 questions related to your issue.

BW

New version with the external pump and progessive controller. The pump was primed before flooring the car and the pump pressure is 80 on the kit, I don't know about the check valve but I know there is a little filter that he took out and th problem is still there. The starting point I think is between 14 and 16 lbs of boost and he was told he could use methanol with his pump.

 

[Quick6'n'-K.C.]

Well, if its progressive, why would you want the spray on point at 16? Then by the time(if the boost comes fast) would you want it to start spraying that high?

In my honest opinion, the boost is coming up so fast, the car is detonating because of the lack of meth.

I am dealing with this right now too, but on the top end, mine is extreemly rich.

Had to turn the switch at the bottom of the pump out 5 turns to get the controller dialed to actual boost number listed on the start dial.
My car has a trans brake, it took awhile to get it right.

Make sure your actual boost numbers correlate with when its coming on, mine was off 12 psi because i purchased the parts separately.

Now even with the "controller set" i can bring the car on boost under the hood and the pump doesnt even make pressure.
Now is when i need a in car meth pressure gauge, this would be the best thing for tuning for me right now.

Everytime i make a post like this, i can see Julios eyes over my shoulder glistening off the computer screen, like he is on my shoulder to tell me :tongue:

If the max is dialed all the way, max pump pressure should sweep to 120.

Better check you pump pressure with the max setting and get it spraying sooner since it is a progressive system, which ive yet to see the progressive part on my setup.
BW

 

[V6 Beast]

clogged fuel filter?

S.

 

[evil666]

clogged fuel filter?

S.

Fuel filter as been changed.

 

[Quick6'n'-K.C.]

Lower the start spray point for when the car is rolling and see if that makes a difference.
Let us know
BW

 

[evil666]

Lower the start spray point for when the car is rolling and see if that makes a difference.
Let us know
BW

We made the methanol kick in at 8lbs of boost but the KR still hit 60. It feels as if the car is over boosting and the computer retards the timing like crazy. Since my brother installed the pt61 turbo he is having a hard time to lower the boost, the lowest boost he could run is 20lbs. Even at 20lbs with the alky and 60lbs injectors, new fuel pump the car should take it very easy. Now he is going to try the stock turbo just to see if the problem is still there.
Running out of ideas, thanks for the help.

Marco.

 

[Quick6'n'-K.C.]

Well, let me ask this

When your brother purchased the 60's, did he order the CHIP with intensions of running a stock turbo, or the 61 turbo?

If he ordered the chip for the stock turbo, then installed the 61 turbo and didnt have Red Armstrong add more fuel at wot, that too could be a major issue that your having being too lean.


Also, as i recall, if running a non methanol chip, romping on it like your saying will give total advance timing 23° 24° immediately and could also cause knock since the timing is instant, then the meth sprays.

Eric Marshall puts a delay in the timing giving the car a few seconds of lower timing to keep initial knock counts down.

Too bad you couldnt lower the boost to 15, turn off the alky, and see if the car is still having the same issues.

I am confused by knock goes to 60, is that 6.0° of knock?

WOT fueling at 650-680 per your first post, leads me back to not enough actual fueling in the chip at 20psi, that or your fuel pressure regulator hose is off, or reg not working correctly.

Just trying to help
BW

 

[evil666]

Well, let me ask this

When your brother purchased the 60's, did he order the CHIP with intensions of running a stock turbo, or the 61 turbo?

If he ordered the chip for the stock turbo, then installed the 61 turbo and didnt have Red Armstrong add more fuel at wot, that too could be a major issue that your having being too lean.


Also, as i recall, if running a non methanol chip, romping on it like your saying will give total advance timing 23° 24° immediately and could also cause knock since the timing is instant, then the meth sprays.

Eric Marshall puts a delay in the timing giving the car a few seconds of lower timing to keep initial knock counts down.

Too bad you couldnt lower the boost to 15, turn off the alky, and see if the car is still having the same issues.

I am confused by knock goes to 60, is that 6.0° of knock?

WOT fueling at 650-680 per your first post, leads me back to not enough actual fueling in the chip at 20psi, that or your fuel pressure regulator hose is off, or reg not working correctly.

Just trying to help
BW

The chip my brother ordered was programed to run with the pt61 and the alky injection. He has ordered a turbotweak chip to see how the car is going to react but he still hasn't got it yet. I don't know why with this turbo we can't turn the boost down, my brother thinks maybe because the wastegate hole is smaller than his other turbo(pt54). He monitors the car with a otc 4000e and it displays KR 60 and not 6.0 but maybe it means the same thing I am not sure. If the turbotweak chip doesn't work we will try my fuel regulator on his car and seewhat happens.

Thanks for all the advice Bryan.
Marco.

 

[TurboBuRick]

One thing needs to be made clear. Max setting is not max pump speed. It is the point at witch the pump reaches max output. So if you have it set at 26 and running 20lbs of boost the pump is not reaching max output. Turn max point to 20 and you will get full pump output at 20psi.

Spray on sooner if your getting knock down low. You gotta play with this thing a little.

 

[Quick6'n'-K.C.]

One thing needs to be made clear. Max setting is not max pump speed. It is the point at witch the pump reaches max output. So if you have it set at 26 and running 20lbs of boost the pump is not reaching max output. Turn max point to 20 and you will get full pump output at 20psi.

Spray on sooner if your getting knock down low. You gotta play with this thing a little.

That is correct, setting the progressive to 26 and running 20psi, the max pump speed will not ever be reached.
Turning it down lower than 20 the max pump speed will be reached sooner.

BW