Originally posted by Dan K
What? Watch the video you linked us to again. At the 48% point the guy that walks out onto the floor walks right up to Artest and starts jawing with him. And you're going to try to tell me that guy wasn't making an imminent threat towards Ron Artest? I think he most definitely was.
Artest threw a punch at him and the guy kept coming...if it suprised him or shocked him he would have retreated. That's basic human instinct to try and protect yourself from danger
As you already stated above the guy "started 'jawing' with him" That is in no way an immenent threat of physical harm. Bad words isn't an excuse to try to blast someone in the face. A stance of someone much smaller to you "squaring off" DOES NOT meet the legal standard of someone posing an immenent threat of bodily harm. Had he made an attempted strike would have been different but I'm speaking from the perspective of a police officer in Michigan. Had you watched the video of the Oakland County prosecutor answering questions about that very thing you would understand. Artest could have simply walked away and that's EXACTLY what the prosecutor said. Your first obligation under such circumstances is to retreat unless there is NO OTHER ALTERNATIVE. Whether you agree or not, that's the law. The fact he squared off at the Indiana player on the court is irrelelvant.
Originally posted by Dan K
Artest threw a punch at him and the guy kept coming...if it suprised him or shocked him he would have retreated. That's basic human instinct to try and protect yourself from danger.
Sorry to disagree again but Artest threw the first punch without an overt physical action on the fan's part. That's not legally permissible. Artest was NOT in danger. He's' much bigger, stronger and in better shape. That IS taken into account and IS the law. Had the guy made an overt physical attempt to harm Artest then that would rise to the level of self defense.
What if your wife made a fist and said bad words toward you? Is that justification to blast her with a right hook....NO. It's the same standard.
Originally posted by Dan K
In no way did that guy try to protect himself, he went straight towards Artest after the punch was thrown and even raised his right hand to retaliate.
The fan DID NOT charge at Artest first. He squared off at him and Artest blasted him...that's not self defense.
Originally posted by Dan K
Artest threw a punch at him and the guy kept coming...if it suprised him or shocked him he would have retreated.
Artest threw the FIRST punch at the fan. The fan was assaulted first and had a reason to defend himself at that point. The provaction by the fan is not a reason for Artest to throw the first punch. Sorry, but that's the law in Michigan and in most if not all states. Artest should have retreated, it's HIS obligation if confronted by someone threatening a physical confrontation, if at all possible and it was in this case.
Originally posted by Dan K
Why in the hell was that guy even on the court? Maybe he was asking for an autograph? 
He had no justification for being on the court. However, it doesn't justify Artest throwing the first right hook because some dope was in the wrong place squaring off.
Originally posted by Dan K
But the idiotic fans that were throwing things and running out onto the floor are just as guilty of being dopes as any of the players who went up into the stands.
Both sides were out of line. The players should have taken the high road and as they say "two wrongs DON'T make a right". The fan who threw the cup at Artest would have been dealt with the RIGHT WAY. But since Artest took matters into his own hands and administered how own justice he must now answer for his actions. I guarantee he'll have to answer to Assault & Battery charges and with his past may result in jail time.
Originally posted by Dan K
Let me ask you a question. If you're at a boxing fight, and a guy from the crowd runs into the ring during the middle of the fight and advances on either of the fighters (in the same manner the guy in the Pistons jersey approached Ron Artest), does that fighter have the right to deck the guy?
In the State of Michigan (and in most states) the legal standard of "self defense" must be met. Just because some dope climbs into a boxing ring and squares up against a professional boxer without throwing a punch or making an over physical attempt at the boxer and the pro boxer hits the guy first guess who's in serious trouble.....the boxer. Harsh language, an agressive stance, finger jestures or someone who's irate WITHOUT an overt attempt at physically striking the other party doesn't justify throwing the first punch.
Originally posted by Dan K
Shouldn't they view that as some sort of threat against them?
I most certainly think so, and if that guy gets dropped on his ass that's his own fault for being in that ring.
Sorry, but Michigan law requires a retreat unless there is no other alternative. From what I saw, Artest could have turned around and left the court and he should have done just that. A subject being in an unauthorized area isn't justification for a player to deck a fan. That's the job of security and the police. A basketball player's job is to shoot hoops, not be the court police. Artest was waaay out of line and the warrant and civil suit will vet this out.
Originally posted by Dan K
Same thing with the fan that ran on the court and confronted Ron Artest.
The fan "confronted" Artest. He DID NOT make an attempt to physically assult him. In the eyes of the law Artest should have turned around and left. Situation resolved but Artest couldn't do that because he (and the fan) were thugs and Artest took the first shot. If Artest had waited for the guy to take a swing at him he would have been 100% justified in physically defending himself and/or decking the guy as he did.
In conclusion, you may or may not agree with this but I guarantee the Oakland County prosecutor will issue warrants based on this doctrine.
IT IS THE LAW.
One question for you. You're out and about and some guy 30% of your size, weight and physical abilities starts insulting you then puts up his fists. As he's standing there would you haul off and blast him in the face?
