Liquid intercooler users

Warp6

Mine since '92
Joined
May 25, 2001
I'd like to hear some opinions on how they work. Are you happy with it? Who's unit are you running? What kind of improvement have you noticed? Are they a pain in the butt to keep up? I have a heard a bunch of people say how they don't think they work well, but have never actually used one. Let's hear what people say who actually have them. Thanks.
 
To put an answer in a few words. The water to air IC are hard to beat for racing. The only time IMOP a front mount can keep the charge air temp the same as a water to air IC with ice in the tank is if the out side temp is in the 50's or colder.

For daily street driving the air to air is hard to beat. Their are advantages and disadvantages with both. You have to pick the one that suits your needs best.

You can check out posts on this subject by doing a search. This has been brought up a few times.
 
I've searched the subject but it seems the only people who talk about how bad they are have never used them. I'd like to hear real world results from real users.
 
My Dad has had one on his T Type for 10 years with no problems.

He bought the ATR unit when it was the new thing.

He lives in the desert where it gets to 110 in the summer. The car still runs strong even in the heat. He currently has a 70-1 turbo and has had no problems keeping that much air cool.

The cost of a new one is $2000. ATR still makes them. A used one goes for about half that. If you can find them.

You cant beat a liquid intercooler on the street or the strip. They keep the air cool the entire run. And it stays at a consistent temp the whole time. Make sure if you buy one that there is a pump, a tank and a heat exchanger. And yes you can put ice in the tank when you are at the strip to keep it really cool.

If cost is what you are looking at buy a Powerstroke for $150. They work well and you cant beat the price.

If you want one of them and you can find it, you wont be disappointed.

That is just my 2 cents......:)
 
Hey Craig,
There is a local guy, in clemmons that runs the liquid IC. I had the privalage of driving the car for a couple months as a daily driver (end of Sept - Nov) when dry weather permitted. IMO it is a nice piece and fits great. As far as the gains, depends on the weather. Air to Air are just as good considering mild temps around 70 degrees and below. Start running an air to air (stock location IC) when its 90-100 degrees and it gets heat soaked really quick! That is where I would not mind having the ATR liquid IC. Consistency, in time slips, is what I noticed with the liquid IC. The GN ran consistant 7.8's (1/8 mile) stock with the addition of a liquid IC, 9X11 convertor, slicks, and banas100 chip :). Had to throw the chip in there LOL!

Mike Banas
87GN
 
Originally posted by Warp6
I'd like to hear some opinions on how they work. Are you happy with it? Who's unit are you running? What kind of improvement have you noticed? Are they a pain in the butt to keep up? I have a heard a bunch of people say how they don't think they work well, but have never actually used one. Let's hear what people say who actually have them. Thanks.

Look at the Syclones.
Lots of them going pretty fast with the oem Air to Liquid, intercoolers.

www.syty.org should get you some info..

The idea is still popular in detroit.
 
Old thread but I was doing a search. I have been having some issues with my car this year so I dont have real solid time slip improvements but I can make a few statements:

1. My car can beat my old "best" time on a reg basis. A off run now was a good run before.

2. I used to jack around pushing the car and crap like that to keep cool as possible before a run. Now I like to put a little heat into it instead. It actually likes a little extra heat in her now.

3. I run good fuel but if I posted some full pass o2 readings, boost levels I was at, and then told you I never saw any knock people would call me a liar. You can get away with murder if the air into the motor is nice and cold.

4. I can hot lap with no drop in performance! This is very awesome when the lanes are short on test and tune day.

5. I turn my pumps on when I'm pulling around to the burn out box. I shut them off when I'm shuting the car down. My tanks are nice and issulated. I have very little melting that isnt caused by making passes. I melted 70 f'n pounds of ice last time out!

6. my up pipe is always cooler to the touch than my maf pipe after a high psi run.

7. I only have a couple every day friends who own turbo buick powered cars. Pretty much all of them want a liquid IC now that they've seen one work.

HTH: Jason
 
Be careful...

..what you say about liquid intercoolers on this board. If you have one and put up a good #, you will get told you are cheating or your car is not the "norm" for turbobuicks.(refer to azgn for more details on his qoutes);)

..now for the subject at hand, a local guy who will remain nameless, runs a 15 row air to air intercooler with a coolbox welded around it(poor mans liquid intercooler), and runs consistently, in the florida heat. He has went low 10's @ 130 ++. The car is very consistent and easy to tune. Reason being is the intake air temps, remain relatively consistent, which helps big time, especially when you are running big boost(30 + pounds).

Now if you wanna get respect on here or run a class(Ex. TSM), you will need to stick with an air to air..
 
Postal made me a big believer in liquid cooled IC, I have seen his car run and believe me his car runs hard for an untouched long block. He is knocking at door to make a 10sec pass:eek: My next project which is a hybird and I am going with Liquid cooled IC.

Good luck
WikedV6
Prasad
 
So how is a liquid intercooler if you are driving around on the street daily, with no ice in the bin? Better or worse than a front mount?
 
Gary Mitchell of raliegh has one of the ATR units on his 87GN.
I'll try to email when I get home tonight.
 
'shoebox is misquoting and misinformed....an intercooler surrounded by ice and enclosed is not the same as an air to water IC.......the Fla car has a cold box, not an air to water

totally different concepts-

the air to water will eventually heat soak like an air to air, but at the track the water can be kept cold enough to offer advantages

a cold box has no exposure to air and as long as there is ice in there, will maintain a consistent charge air temp (of course to use one of these on the street would be problematic, unless you carry a trunk full of ice.....or remove the box....)

I never said the use of such devices was "cheating", in fact it is a damn good idea (but a cold box offers significant advantages over an air to air IC of any kind so you really can't compare the Fl car to a car running an air to air...he should be faster under all conditions)
 
My ATR IC came with a big heat exchanger(HX). It looks like a really big oil cooler that goes in front of the radiator. I dont have my water plumbed through it yet. When you run on the street and circulate the water through the HX its supposed to cool the water back down when needed. Air to air xfer isnt as fast as air to water. Ever hear of guys talking about thermal mass of a air to air set up? I think what happens is the water in a liquid set up acts like a big shock absorber. Water will absorb a bunch of heat energy when under boost. Then it will disapate the heat with the HX during normal cruising. Also at the track you dont have to ice down. You can run the water through the HX and disapate the heat that way. I wont have much input on the street part until next summer. Right now my car is in track only mode until I get the bugs all worked out of it.

Jason
 
wouldn't ice water without the heat exchanger be the hot ticket at the track? (just refill with new ice water every pass...)

I can see using the heat ex on the street, but maybe not at the track? (wouldn't it heat up the water if the ambient is above, say 40*?)
 
I have a couple of air to air units and a liquid intercooler available to me. There is little doubt in my mind based on my experience that with everthing being equal the air to water unit will out perform the air to air units particularly during the summer months. During cooler weather (under 70 or so) all intercoolers seem to work well including the stock Buick unit. The air to air units are from Eastern Performance and Kenne Bell. I can't measure a difference between the two. The liquid unit is manufactured by a local welder (Mark Brown). Lawrence C. was one of his venders. I use the liquid intercooler at the track and one of the air to air on the street. With ice water running through the liquid intercooler the added torque produced by the motor is incredible. My 86 GN with ported stock iron heads, red stripe injectors, TE 34 turbo with .82 exhaust housing , stock cam, intake and doghouse ran 10.7 at 125 with the liquid intercooler (1.39 60'). I was unable to break into the 10's with my particular combination until I used the liquid unit. There is some fine tuning required. It seems to me that the very dense charge (recorded as low as 86 degrees into the throttle body) likes a richer mixture.
 
I ran one of the Mark Brown liquid intercoolers several years ago. It worked great. I had a larger water resevoir in the trunk, but it may be better to use a smaller resevoir at the front of the car for a track only car (to mainly save on weight). I did not plumb an external heat exchanger inline. The heat exchanger would be a good idea for the street. I just ran 2 marine pumps, one pushing to the intercooler and one pulling, with 5/8" black garden hose from my resevoir in the trunk. I believe that the volume of water that I was able to pass through the intercooler helped on the street. You will go through some ice at the track! One solution that I used was the blue cooler packs in order to keep from having to buy ice each time (I would just refreeze them). This also kept me from having to drain the excess water from the resevoir created by the melting ice. I did install a drain valve inline after the pushing pump, so draining everything wasn't a big deal. I'd open the valve, turn the pumps on, and the water was emptied.

Then I got fancy (and faster) by not using water, but alcohol and dry ice. If you go this route, be sure to have a vent on the resevoir to vent the dry ice. Dry ice can't be capped up. If your resevoir doesn't have a strong seal it may vent the dry ice okay. I always drew a crowd when I would put chunks of dry ice into the trunk of the car and the fog was come billowing out. Some of the local spcetators also found out that the alcohol/dry ice combo did an excellent job of cooling of their beer during a run. One thing to note, get in good with your local dry ice distributor or this will get expensive. Our local distributor had several Corvettes so we also talked cars for a while and he would give me a deal.

As far as times for this combo, my friend and I began working on our cars at around the same time. Both cars were running 7.80-7.90's in the 1/8 mile (this was fast in the early-mid 1990's). I installed this intercooler and he installed a set of ported/polished heads. Both cars then responded with consistent 7.50's-high 7.40's. Then he installed a Eastern FM and I installed a set of ported/polished heads. Both cars then responded with consistent 7-teens. Some basically the liquid intercooler picked me up about the same as a P/P set of heads and his FM did about the same too. He eventually got into the 6's with this combo and I was working with BFG testing the new (at this time) drag radials running 7.30's.

That is basically my experience with liquid intercoolers. I sold the whole setup several years ago and installed a 17 row stock location as my car became more of a street car and I liked the no maintenance of the air to air intercooler. Unfortunately, thanks to a 2-piece Buick GN racing crank (SNAP!), a botched rebuild by a local machine shop, and a "friend" who I am still trying to recover parts that came up missing from his shop, my poor car hasn't run in about 6 -7 years.

Dang! This story just reminded me of how much fun it was to race these car when I had money to spend (not married, no child, no house payment)! It sucks to be getting older and have to grow up, but I've had more fun with the wife and child than the car. However, my daughter is 6 now and has already started learning about Buicks. I have gathered the most of the missing parts, so hopefully, my Buick will be alive again one day!
 
There is some fine tuning required. It seems to me that the very dense charge (recorded as low as 86 degrees into the throttle body) likes a richer mixture.
Hmmm... You always go on personal experience and I may be going the wrong way. When I was running a stretch my car liked lower timing, extra boost, and lean was mean. Leaning the car out made it run harder from start to finish. So here I am messing around with low timing, high boost, and trying to lean it out. Maybe now that I'm running the iced down liquid set up I should mess with some extra fuel.

For you guys who did run liquids did you find out any thing about timing on them? Do they like the timing to be higher. I'm only running 21 degrees of timing with 118 fuel. I went 11.16@121 grabbing Over Drive about the 1000' mark. This was the first time out with the car with the liquid IC and enough fuel pump(another story). This was also my first crack at trying to tune out 72# injectors on a untouched stock long block. I only got 60's in the low 1.6's also. Earlier in the year I was pulling 1.4's.

I dont want to go all winter thinking "if and buts". Any current or former liquid IC guys that would like to give me a few tips or pointers please pm me or email or some thing. I dont want this buging me all winter long.

Jason
 
Originally posted by azgn
wouldn't ice water without the heat exchanger be the hot ticket at the track? (just refill with new ice water every pass...)

Chew on this for a moment...Obviously the hot air in the intercooler is going to heat the water, possibly to temps hotter then the ambient air temp...so if you route the water were it goes to the HE before the ice water then it will get cooled twice, and therefore be colder...Now if the water came from the tank to the HE (that would heat the water because ambient air would be warmer then the ice water) then to the intercooler it would be counter productive.
 
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