KR Problem... whats next?

[Kyle F]

Well. Still working on the knock problem. Got new Spark Plug wiresTo put in place of originals), New R42LTS plugs because the old ones looked pretty bad, Coil pack tested bad so I have a new one. THe ignition coil tested good. Plus there is a new O2 sensor. New Fuel Filter. Mods are whats shown below.
I just need to know where to go next.

What should I check. It looked liek it was runnign ricvh so I turned the fuel pressure down. It is set at 43, line off and boost is in the 18-20# range. Most likely 19#, but oly got a quick glimpse as I was watchign th eknock gage.

at WOT, it shot up to the red (on the Caspers gage) and then cleared out to the first tick of green.


I really thought I had this problem worked out when I found the coil packs were bad.

SO... What do I check for next. I am going to set the fuel pressure back at 45 and pull a pound or two of boost out.

How much knock woul,d be expected for being 1 psi out?

 

[Nick Micale]

Originally posted by Kyle F
.....Got new Spark Plug wiresTo put in place of originals), New R42LTS plugs because the old ones looked pretty bad, ............

Either you listed the plug number wrong or you have Champion alum heads? The R42LTS is a long reach plug incorrect for iron heads.

 

[Kyle F]

I was opriginally told that these were the OEM Plugs for the TTA. It had(dare I say it) Bosch Platinums in it when I got it.

They fit with no problem, and I had a set it int before that were R42LTS and had no problems except that I think one was fouled due to a bad coil pack.

If its not the R42LTS, what is the original plug?

 

[Nick Micale]

Sorry, guess I did not see TTA!

You could also try a Denso #5032, but that is not the solution to the problem.

After carefully reading your post this time, would thing taking out some boost or adding race gas would help determing why KR is happening. Lots of areas are getting lower quality pump gas lately so a pound or 2 of boost would be critical.

 

[Kyle F]

I took a 1/2 turn out of my wastegate. Then added 2lbs of base fuel pressure.

Will see what happens. Have an hour and a half drive coming up.

YOu scared me there for a minute with the plugs LOL.

My car has been getting a steady dose of Sunoco 93 for about 10 tankfuls now, except one fillup with Shell 93.


I do have some Xylene out in the shed, I might try that sometime and see what happens. THough that was always my plan incase I went out hunting or to the track. Add 2-3lbs of boost, lower tire pressuer to 25psi in the rear and add a 30% mixtur of Xylene with about a 1/4 tank of Sunoco 94.

I dont want to tune it to running race gas. Its 93 or bust... even if it means back to the stock chip. Which I dont want to do because the thrasher is 100% better.

I am going to have a chanve to talk to Scott Simpson later tonight. So, if taking 1/2-1lb of boost out and adding a little more fuel didn't help, maybe he may have some other suggestions. I will post back later tonight an see how things went on my way home.

 

[Chuck Leeper]

93??

Kyle said:
"I dont want to tune it to running race gas. Its 93 or bust... even if it means back to the stock chip. Which I dont want to do because the thrasher is 100% better".

If that's the case, I think you are a bit optimistic trying to run 18-20# of boost.
The stock chip will likely make that idea even further out of the realm of probability...Even tho the timing may be lower, so is the fueling...

Back under my rock....

 

[Razor]

Does the car knock at 15-16 PSI.. if not, there is nothing wrong..

You have the car on the edge of detonation when you raise the boost. Doing so is more hurtful than running 25 PSI on race gas or alky. Remember detonation is like a hammer hitting the bottom of the motor. you wont realize this until you end up breaking the crank or spinning bearings.

You can run higher boost by reducing timing, getting a better IC, bigger turbo, etc.. lots of tricks.. another one is having clean combustion chambers, IOW piston tops not full of crud..combustion chambers clean, etc..

Good luck on your quest with a used motor..some cars just ping more than others.. its how it is. Due to reasons mentioned above.

Also your doing this without a real scan tool.. a knock guage is a toy.

HTH..

Back under my rock as well

 

[Kyle F]

Well, I am also using Turbo Link to keep an Eye on other things.


There is some more to the story that I didnt realize was still there until I took it for a drive tonight.

I am still gettign frames of dumb error codes on Turbo Link and they are not setting of tthe SES light.

I have been using this around 20# in first, and about 18lbs in 2nd and 3rd for a while. Everythign was fine. And the Turbolink was acting ok as well.

Now I am getting excessive knock and strange codes.

Scott is willoing to help me. He has soem race gas in his garage that we are going to put in the tank. If that doesnt erase the problem, then we are going to swap in a different ECM.

I just sometimes wonder if the turbo is just spooling too quick with the Thrasher chip. Although I highly dount it because the problem is independent of chips.

Maybe I should try to add another round or two on the waste gate, but I just am not sure if I would just be hiding the real problem.

I am beginning to think it may be the ECM. I have already had one ECM take a dump on me. It may be my cars "problem". Some cars kill certain things quicker than others, and mine just might eat ECMs. Which I think would be traced to a bad ground, but we checked all the grounds, and pulled them off, cleaned and sanded them a little. THne, no change.

Another note, these are the original fuel injectors. Even though thje O2 Values may be right. The fuel might not be atomizing in the air well? Could this be a possibility?

 

[Chuck Leeper]

????'s

Originally posted by Kyle F
Well, I am also using Turbo Link to keep an Eye on other things.


There is some more to the story that I didnt realize was still there until I took it for a drive tonight.

I am still gettign frames of dumb error codes on Turbo Link and they are not setting of tthe SES light.
** Does the SES come on when the key is turned on?
No lite goes back to the ECm problem.

I have been using this around 20# in first, and about 18lbs in 2nd and 3rd for a while. Everythign was fine. And the Turbolink was acting ok as well.
** I'd check the boost gauge for accuracy. What kind of gauge?

Now I am getting excessive knock and strange codes.
** Has the sensor been out of the engine?
If so, what torque was applied on the install?

Scott is willoing to help me. He has soem race gas in his garage that we are going to put in the tank. If that doesnt erase the problem, then we are going to swap in a different ECM.
** Adding race gas is not likely to erase "wierd codes".
Go over the wiring inch by inch.

I just sometimes wonder if the turbo is just spooling too quick with the Thrasher chip. Although I highly dount it because the problem is independent of chips.
** Wierd codes are also caused by pin problems w/ the chip. If you have been changing chips, look at the pins and sockets.

Maybe I should try to add another round or two on the waste gate, but I just am not sure if I would just be hiding the real problem.
**Another "round or 2" will just raise the boost further. Like someone said, a good way to crater the crank and such.

I am beginning to think it may be the ECM. I have already had one ECM take a dump on me. It may be my cars "problem".
** NOT!!
Some cars kill certain things quicker than others, and mine just might eat ECMs. Which I think would be traced to a bad ground, but we checked all the grounds, and pulled them off, cleaned and sanded them a little. THne, no change.

Another note, these are the original fuel injectors. Even though thje O2 Values may be right. The fuel might not be atomizing in the air well? Could this be a possibility?

**At 20psi, the fuel, if even dumped in, will atomize..Injs can be dirty and not up to the design level for flow. I've seen lots of them pick up 10% flow once cleaned.
Turn the boost down, find the problems, sneak up on the boost once this is done.

Bottom line is: Kick the "boost addiction" problem and get the car running right first.

 

[Razor]

I had a car here that would KR a lot even with alky.. problem was the stock fuel injectors..swapped in a set of 50's the KR problem went away.

Three items are necessary for easy troubleshooting, a spare ECM, MAF, and a coilpack ign module. If you pass through these..then you know what its not.

 

[tta583]

Kyle,

Just a few thoughts and reiterations of previous comments:

Bad frames in TL? I have seen like 2 in all the times I have used it on mine and other cars. Something seems messed up there. No SES light or codes, perhaps it is as simple as a bad cable connection. The TL cable fits the ALDL port but they are not very snug. Perhaps just a little tape?? Just a suggestion.

As for knock. I also run about 20 PSI with a Thrasher 92 but I have no problems. There are some major differences between your TTA and mine, however. I run blue tops, a little more fuel volume. I do run about 43 PSI FP line off. I also run "good" (as I can get) 93 octane pump mixed with zylene to yield about 96-97 octane. I have to look back at my formula again to refresh my memory. I also run a maunal boost controler. There are some older threads running around here that talk about how a thrasher controls boost that can cause a boost spike. My car had a tendancy to spike up to around like 24 PSI and have the associated knock. I still have a small spike with my manual, like a pound, but it is much better than letting the ecm control it.

Basically, in my case: same boost with more octane and more fuel plus a little better control of the boost.

Brent

 

[Kyle F]

Chuck... Thanks for youe help.

Here is some more infor in response to your suggestions:

SES Light Does come on before the car is started.
Boost guage seems to be accurate. Maybe 1-1.5 lbs over the stock dash guage. Though, I feel that my dash guage is slow to respond and therefore would appear to be less but actually just getting to where the guage in my A-pillar is at. Its an Autometer(I forget which type, but its a Silver face, back lit) And we tested it with a vacume pump and the Vac side is right on with the pump.

Sensor has not been out of the car. Atleast since I have owned it.

We have went over the wiring mostly. Might need to revisit that.

All ECM pis were checked for straightness and cleaned with rubbing alcohol once this problem arose. Same for the chips, bot factory and Thrasher, plus the socket they fit in. Same for the Calpak

When I said adding a round or two. I meant lowering the boost by making the wastegate arm Longer(this is correct right? Longer=less boost?)

I think I will be moving the boost down once Scott gets a chance to help me out.

TTA583.
All connections are snug. Double checked them many times.

My boost is not spiking. Just spooling very quickly(which I like for part throttle operation)

It might very well be the fuel injectors not flowing properly, and I will get to that eventually. But that Means more $$$ and work than eliminating other possibilities first.

 

[Zneed4speed]

Hey Kyle, not sure if you've tried these or not.

I would check the PCV and see if blowing any oil through there. Oil can significantly lower the octane of your fuel and Result in Knock.

Maybe you should check the MAF as well. If you just oiled your filter, it is possible to get some buildup on your sensors. Try cleaning it out with rubbing alcohol. Use the turbolink to see how many grams you're getting through that MAF.

just my .02, hope you get your problem solved.

 

[8UWITH6]

Kyle.....say it with me.....turn.....down.....da.....boost. 15-16psi max on a street chip and pump gas, period. If your still getting knock at 15ish, add a gallon of xylene, go from there, get back to us.

 

[Kyle F]

I never thought about any oil getting in. Now that you mention it, there did look to be excessive buildup near the Turbine entrance from the PCV system.


As far as turning down the boost... well It is longer on the wastegate rod the less boost correct?

It seems that the knock is coming in at around 12-14PSI.

Oh and I checked the gages today. When the Autometer said ~2psi and I let off the throttle quickly, I heard a faint Sneeze Which means I had some boost. The factory gage said Nothing.

 

[Lee_Burough]

Kyle,

When I was chasing my tail about KR, Ken Mosher suggested a brew of 30% Zylene....If that didn't fix it he recommended checking these things:

• "*failing MAF
  *Vacuum leak
  *Chip with too much timing (we can get a feel with high octane fuel .. if it doesn't get better, then we have to look elsewhere)
  *O2 sensor is misreading
  *Header leaks
  *Cross over leaks"

I've noticed master mechanics on the BB's saying its a good idea to check all the engine grounds whenever there are fallouts in data logging (frequently associated with engine popping )

Also, is your CAT blocked? You might want to run a "test pipe" to see if the CAT is your problem (for off road use of course)

I've had good luck referring to these two sites for background info in tuning and hunting for KR: first site second site