killed a 71 trans-am HO today

[turbo buicks]

HAHA RIGHT ON. this reminds me of that post on tbs.com where the dude said he beat a LS6 chevelle and everyone called BS till somebody posted a shootout of some old and new muscle and the GN came out 2nd under the Viper. then they started complaining about it using racegas. alky can fix that.

 

[ThikStik]

Yes, it would seem us Pont guys are being sorry losers by proxy. It is just frustrating to see our breed always under utilized in the area of parts and knowledge. I agree, you never see them running like they should. And in this case, even if the guy had the best of parts, Edel heads, Fulper cam, etc while he would be hellacious on the low end dig, I would bet on black to walk his n/a butt on any high end run. Perhaps I could even further the argument of O F Jackass of slow muscle cars, and declare that the days of fast n/a low tech cars are over. This is happening, as everyone is now lighter, higher tech, and often turboed, awd, etc. So perhaps its time for the old school big block guys to become like everyone else and utilize the crutch of a power adder. Geez, who isnt anymore.

 

[turbo buicks]

hmmmm, do i sense a bit or sarcasm?

 

[Pronto]

Pontiacs were never really a great dragrace engines to begin with. They were much better at street racing. They make lots of torque (like the turbo 6) and from the factory were combined with good gears and trans. They never were meant to go 7500 rpm like a SBC can. Across the board, all brands of 60s/70s muscle cars can be made to go faster with proper tuning. Since no carbed BOP engines have been around for years much of the old time tuning and tweaking tricks have been lost. The younger generation that grew up with fuel injection and computers doesn't always get how to get more out of these old warriors. I see the BOPs as orphaned childs. Chevy gets all the parts and big talk. Pontiac parts are starting to be more available same for Olds but still they are much more expensive than Chevies. I have a lot of respect for the guys that carry the torch and still can make them go.

 

[ThikStik]

Your right on Pronto. Its always more frustrating to be brand loyal to BOP. Some of the parts chases that I experienced in the 80's were ridiculous. Like a parts yard 1976 ram air S.D getting bought to go into a pulp wood truck. The "real" parts were always gone. Therefore, when you encounter a BOP, its almost never the real deal, just coddled punk junk with the same old big headers, cam with old tech heads. Yes, this stuff is getting old . Its hard to find anyone who knows an 800 from a 750 Qjet, or what goes on in a distributer. And, the quality problems of niche parts (like my Richmond 6 speed, and all clutches) is almost making me re-consider the hobby-but thats another thread.

 

[boostin]

Give me a BOP any day. SD Trans Ams, GTOs, 442s, GSs, they're the real muscle cars.

 

[We4ster]

I own a 87 We-4 and a 74 formula super duty(455). They both have their pluses and -'s. There is nothing like the sound of a 455 rev'n up to get everyones attention. The nice thing about the t-type is that it is relatively quiet, they dont know what hit them..Got to love them both........

 

[BEATAV8]

I own an old 77 T/A with a 400 Poncho and TH350. It's built up quite a bit. RAIV cam, 10:1 compression, torker II intake, 700 double pumper, super comp headers, 3" duals, big 2.11/1.77 valves, ported heads, 3.90 gear, 3000 stall torque converter. I love the old bird, it's full of bumpity-bump idle and screaming chicken attitude and torque. Owned it more than 10 years.

I got into Turbo Buicks shortly after I had my azz handed to me by a mildly modded 87 T. (best race I ever lost!) Poor old T/A just couldn't hang, neither out of the hole or in the top end. Granted... I am guilty. I have not seriously tried to get it to run the way it should. (It really needs an ignition upgrade and fueling adjustment)

I've been to some big Poncho events, most of the street cars were running 13's and 14's. Go to the midwest buick challenge and most of the GS's and TR's alike, in the 11's and 12's.

My best bud is a pontiac nut. He's one of the few who really spent the time tuning his Poncho to run. His 84 grand prix with a 455 ran 12.90 on a set of ET streets, and went 11.90's with a 150 shot on radials. That was a big big deal with the local Pontiac street machine crowd.

 

[Little6pack]

Was this a full 1/4 race or stoplight action?

I know from past pontiacs I have owned are only good in stop light - low end races.. They die out on the top end.

Yeah TA's need work to get down into low 13's.. So this guy;s warmed over 400 is probably a 15 or 14 second car.

 

[inkcushion]

It was stoplight action,but where we at we could of ran a full 1/4 mile before we got to another light! It didn't matter I had Him fom the begining,nothing for the BLACK!!!!!!

 

[Trader_Slick]

Did the guy in the TA ever say what rear gear he had, I have a 78 400 TA's and most of the 400 TH350 cars had a 2.56 rear gear.Still a great kill though

 

[Rollin]

I don't think it would have mattered... high 12's or faster in street trim on a sticky tire will lay waste to any true 13-14 second car from a dig or roll, unless the other car had a pretty good roll to begin with, which in this case it did'nt.

 

[GNVAIR]

I think many die hard fanatics of other brands think their car is the greatest for one reason or another. Many forget the real beauty of the Turbo Buick and that is being able to go fast with bolt ons. Mid to low 12's with mild tweaks without removing a valve cover or gutting the car or adding bigger gears or losing driveability. Heck, I know plenty of guys the have gone damn near the 10's with bolt ons without removing the valve covers.
Many people fail to remember that. There are few other cars that are like that. The only 2 I can think of are the 93-93 turbo Supras and the 2003 Mustang Cobra.
Back to the issue at hand. Stock 400 or 455 Pontiac with mild tweaks and Stock Turbo Buick with mild tweaks. I would put money on the Buick and not because I am biased. I just know how these cars get people out of the hole.

 

[Trader_Slick]

Ok i wasn't trying to sabotage his kill, i just had a question. and as far as the brand loyality thing, i'm love both second gen TA's and Turbo Regals, Hell i'm looking to get TR right at the moment, you can't beat them. Also i know i can't read i missed the 3.90 gear in the earlier post. I blame the public school system.

 

[RKHiPerformance]

Hey inlkcushion...

What color was that T/A you raced?

 

[inkcushion]

The car was an oreange and red color kinda like a candy fade,with a ton of flames all over the front! The car did look fast!

 

[Buick Beginner]

A story to share

I've got a little story to share that happened back in 1984, it may shed a little light on this whole thing. Back then I worked for Bob Salter Chevrolet in Pensacola Fl. I was 18 years old my job was new car prep. I pulled out the plastic, checked all the fluids, etc... And I TEST DROVE every single new car. How insane is it to have an 18 year old test driving new Vettes, Camaros, and Monte Carlos? It was, by far, the funest job I could have possibly had. Anyway, I was out on a test drive in a brand new 1984 Camaro Z-28 with the 5.0 HO motor and a 5 speed (you couldn't get the Croos-Fire injection with the 5 speed that year, had to be a carburator). By today's standards the car was nothing to write home about, but I ended up next to a 1974 Trans Am with a lopey idle and a nice deep exhaust tone. As fate would have it we ended up racing from a 10 mile per hour punch, we ran all the way until I missed the 5th gear shift. I stayed on his back bumper during the whole race, and actually got up next to him in 4th gear, started at him eyeball to eyeball. Well anyway, we stopped down at the end of the road and talked for minute. The guy say's "What's that thing got in it?" I told him it was bone stock, he was flabbergasted! He ran down a grocery list of things the car had on it, I don't remember everything he said, but I do remember a few things: 400 cu. in. motor, cam, headers, 3500 stall, holley carb., and Torker intake. Now, how in the world did this happen? I have no idea! But, perhaps it was one of the following: 1. Tuning - if your combo isn't tuned right, you might as well stay home. 2. Gear - We started from a 10 MPH punch, maybe his gearing was too steep for that situation. 3. Mismatched combo - Had a buddy with a 427 powered chevelle the car ran like a dog under 3500 rpms, reason, single plane intake. Went to a dual plane intake, the car picked up 2/10's. 4. Driver ability - Some can drive, some can't. So, my big point being that there are plenty of weird things that just don't add up, but they happen. Just thought I'd chime in. - BB
(P.S. I'm pretty familiar with old Ponchos, my high school ride was a 1970 GTO with the Ram Air III motor, fun, fun, fun!!)