Is a used car dealer by law have to notify a buyer if there is a gps system installed
- Thread starter brittken
- Start date
What does he use the GPS for? Denying warranty claims? Blackmail?
There have been rumors that some manufacturers put little black boxes in, for collecting data. Now, they wouldn't use the data because admitting they're collecting it would cost them more than a single vehicle, so even if you are punching it up to 100 mph after every stoplight, they'd still replace the brakes and engine under warranty. But a private individual doing something like that... sounds odd.
There have been rumors that some manufacturers put little black boxes in, for collecting data. Now, they wouldn't use the data because admitting they're collecting it would cost them more than a single vehicle, so even if you are punching it up to 100 mph after every stoplight, they'd still replace the brakes and engine under warranty. But a private individual doing something like that... sounds odd.
He has the gps systems installed in cars that are sold and financed through a certain lender that has customers car payments deducted out of their check monthly. If a customer is late on thirer payments he can in turn shut the car down. Funny thing is the customer knows nothing about this when they purchase the car.
BLACK6PACK
1 sec reaction King
- Joined
- May 24, 2001
I heard similar situation and the guy ended up getting sued. He shut a couple of cars down in emergency situations.
NOT IN NC
I know for a FACT GPS locators are illegal in NC. I believe that is a nationwide deal now too. Just call your dmv enforcement officer and ask him.
They used to be legal in NC and the lawsuits were rampant, said went against privacy laws. I will bet dollars to doughnuts not legal in your state either.
Starter interupts are legal and the NEW thing. I still do not use them becuase I am sure on day some one is going to get sued over them as well.
I know for a FACT GPS locators are illegal in NC. I believe that is a nationwide deal now too. Just call your dmv enforcement officer and ask him.
They used to be legal in NC and the lawsuits were rampant, said went against privacy laws. I will bet dollars to doughnuts not legal in your state either.
Starter interupts are legal and the NEW thing. I still do not use them becuase I am sure on day some one is going to get sued over them as well.
John Larkin
Sublime Master of Turbology
- Joined
- May 25, 2001
A car dealer has just as much right to protect his asset as the next person. People walk in, ready to buy 'em a car. Then when something happens in their life, they expect the financier to accommodate their situation regardless of the agreement. Without the shut-off device, the buyer can do as he pleases while mr. dealer has to jump through hoops to find the car and repossess it. Ever had a hotel deactivate your key due to needing you to come to the front desk? Happened to me and not a darn thing you can do about it. One last thing: Why do you think he has the device on there in the first place: tendency of clients that he finanaces? Poor credit and poor payment history? They should be grateful that someone is at least willing to even take a risk on them. The world owes no one diddly squat.
TurboJunky
Fire the Federal Gov't
- Joined
- Nov 5, 2002
There's no question it's legal unless there's a specific state law prohibiting the practice. To my knowledge there's no federal law banning it.
Your rights are not being violated since Constitutional protections (your rights) are protected from GOVERNMENT intervention, not private individuals - in this case a private company. I suspect there's something in the minisucle print within the contract that says it'll be there and you agree to it's installation and use.
There are evesdropping laws on the books but I suspect this device isn't "spying" on you. It simply enables the company with a secured interest in the car the ability to disable it's use if the other party (borrower) renigs on the contract. Sounds fair to me.
Your rights are not being violated since Constitutional protections (your rights) are protected from GOVERNMENT intervention, not private individuals - in this case a private company. I suspect there's something in the minisucle print within the contract that says it'll be there and you agree to it's installation and use.
There are evesdropping laws on the books but I suspect this device isn't "spying" on you. It simply enables the company with a secured interest in the car the ability to disable it's use if the other party (borrower) renigs on the contract. Sounds fair to me.
I know for a fact something is fishy beuase 2 of the mechanics that installed them were told if word got out that they would be terminated. I believe that you as a buyer have a right to know if there is a tracking device in your car. I am getting in touch with the district attorney because this guy needs to be put out of business or fined or something. I bought a car from a local used car lot awhile back and the former owner had papers in the glove box that stated there was a gps device in the car and it should not be tampered with. This was in the previos owners contract. I also think that if you are willing to take a risk and sell cars to people with bad credit than the seller is taking the risk. Sure there is lots of money to be made off of ripping people off with high interest charges and down payments but the least you could do is be honest as a seller and let the buyer know there is a tracking device in the car.
TurboJunky
Fire the Federal Gov't
- Joined
- Nov 5, 2002
Where exactly would find this "right"? I've read the Constitution many times and don't recall reading about the right to know if a GPS is in your car.
If you're financing the car then it's JOINTLY OWNED. If the bank decides to put a GPS in THEIR car then so be it.
If you're referring to your 4th Amendment right to privacy (which it really isn't) it only applies to what the GOVERNMENT may not do. Actually they 4th Amendment is the section that requires search warrants by oath or affirmation. Obviously that doesn't apply here.
I'll reiterate that without a specific state law prohibiting the lender from installing this then I'd be my house your Sh1tOuttaLuck. That's as long as the only function of the device is to disable it from starting back up once shut off if you've breached your contract (late payment).
Many new GM vehicles have the black box in them. They also have onstar as well.
So, in theory, they can listen to you at any time you are in your vehicle as well as track your every move.
I doubt that they are doing such... but it won't be long till insurance companies have access to it and start adjusting your rates accordingly.
So, in theory, they can listen to you at any time you are in your vehicle as well as track your every move.
I doubt that they are doing such... but it won't be long till insurance companies have access to it and start adjusting your rates accordingly.
87grandnat
Active Member
- Joined
- Oct 14, 2003
I am just the opposite, i agree with them to have the right to know were THEIR car is in case you decide to stop paying. I know numerous people who have stopped paying for cars and then do everything they can from letting the company get there car back because they dont have another car, but my personnal opinion is that that is not the companies problem. I dont think it is right for them to be able to shut the car off, just like mentioned before what if you were taking your pregnant wife to the hospital and the car shut off? It seems to me that they could get into some trouble for that.
Joshua
Joshua
Here In Lies the Problem
I fully agree with John Larkin. I own a dealership and 3 finance companies so I KNOW EXACTLY what he is saying. I mostly deal with this class of at RISK CREDIT CUSTOMERS. Trust me we lose on at least 1 out 3 deals. We are in NC and have repoed cars all the way in Maine, Florida, AZ, NM, CA, Oregon, and 1 at the ALASKA border. So trust me people will take your car and LEAVE. We have 3 cars right now that supposedly got shipped to the BAHAMA'S. I would love to be able to install these GPS things and even Started Interupts, but I do not want to be SUED. And it will happen.
There is the PROBLEM. Whether or not it is Right, Wrong, Immorall, or a invasion of Privacy eventually your *SS will get sued.
Like I said earlier I know illegal in NC, gps that is. The starter interupt units are legal, here is how they work.
Every time you make a payment you get a code for the next 30 days. I think it gives you a set amount of days grace period, up to dealer or finance company how long. If you do not put in new code within that grace peroid car WILL NOT START. The way they are saying this is legal is because you get 1 or 2 Emergency codes to use per month. Personally I think this is fair, If you are in the position to have to buy a car from someone who uses them then hey you got to pay to play, or ride in this case. If you had not stuck people in the past you can go buy a car without the equipment installed.
However, even though I agree I do not use them because like I said your *SS will eventually get sued. My attorney and myself have spent countless hours researching this. This is my worst case picture of the starter interupt.
"Man carrying Wife or Child to hospital about to die, and they are past due and enter there emergency code to start. They get on way the car is in need of repair and cuts off. Oh NO, enter the second and final emergency code, get a little farther and guess what cuts off again. No more Codes. Someone dies becuase the starter interupt wont let start again."
Guess what YOUR *SS is SUED if you had that system put on that car. Legal or not I will bet anything on that one. Hell it is legal to serve HOT coffe and look what happened there.
I fully agree with John Larkin. I own a dealership and 3 finance companies so I KNOW EXACTLY what he is saying. I mostly deal with this class of at RISK CREDIT CUSTOMERS. Trust me we lose on at least 1 out 3 deals. We are in NC and have repoed cars all the way in Maine, Florida, AZ, NM, CA, Oregon, and 1 at the ALASKA border. So trust me people will take your car and LEAVE. We have 3 cars right now that supposedly got shipped to the BAHAMA'S. I would love to be able to install these GPS things and even Started Interupts, but I do not want to be SUED. And it will happen.
There is the PROBLEM. Whether or not it is Right, Wrong, Immorall, or a invasion of Privacy eventually your *SS will get sued.
Like I said earlier I know illegal in NC, gps that is. The starter interupt units are legal, here is how they work.
Every time you make a payment you get a code for the next 30 days. I think it gives you a set amount of days grace period, up to dealer or finance company how long. If you do not put in new code within that grace peroid car WILL NOT START. The way they are saying this is legal is because you get 1 or 2 Emergency codes to use per month. Personally I think this is fair, If you are in the position to have to buy a car from someone who uses them then hey you got to pay to play, or ride in this case. If you had not stuck people in the past you can go buy a car without the equipment installed.
However, even though I agree I do not use them because like I said your *SS will eventually get sued. My attorney and myself have spent countless hours researching this. This is my worst case picture of the starter interupt.
"Man carrying Wife or Child to hospital about to die, and they are past due and enter there emergency code to start. They get on way the car is in need of repair and cuts off. Oh NO, enter the second and final emergency code, get a little farther and guess what cuts off again. No more Codes. Someone dies becuase the starter interupt wont let start again."
Guess what YOUR *SS is SUED if you had that system put on that car. Legal or not I will bet anything on that one. Hell it is legal to serve HOT coffe and look what happened there.
Maybe I am an idiot but isn't this really about making $$?
I am assuming the Dealer that would desire to have such tracking devices at thier disposals is also does the financing? Otherwise, wouldn't this be the finance company's problem? My guess is the dealer is rolling these cars out at an inflated retail price and then writing a contract with whatever the max allowed interest rate is. But, these cutomer types deserve it.
Isn't this like giving a drug addict a bag of crack and asking them to be responsible?
If this customer "type" is such a bad risk why the hell roll them out in a car in the first place? I assume you will lose a lot of cars and the risk/reward is not where they would like it to be.
Instead of crying about getting sued, take responsibility for the profile of customer that you are selling to. Sell to only A or B credit profiles.
I am assuming the Dealer that would desire to have such tracking devices at thier disposals is also does the financing? Otherwise, wouldn't this be the finance company's problem? My guess is the dealer is rolling these cars out at an inflated retail price and then writing a contract with whatever the max allowed interest rate is. But, these cutomer types deserve it.
Isn't this like giving a drug addict a bag of crack and asking them to be responsible?
If this customer "type" is such a bad risk why the hell roll them out in a car in the first place? I assume you will lose a lot of cars and the risk/reward is not where they would like it to be.
Instead of crying about getting sued, take responsibility for the profile of customer that you are selling to. Sell to only A or B credit profiles.
*OR*....simply disclose to the at risk customers that the tracking/cutoff device is installed and will be used if XXX amount of time goes by for a past due payment... So long as the only time that the devices would be used was to locate a car that was court ordered to be repo'd, I wouldnt see where any court would have a problem with it..
Just my $.02
Just my $.02
Originally posted by Jbenn911
*OR*....simply disclose to the at risk customers that the tracking/cutoff device is installed and will be used if XXX amount of time goes by for a past due payment... So long as the only time that the devices would be used was to locate a car that was court ordered to be repo'd, I wouldnt see where any court would have a problem with it..
Just my $.02
That's awesome. Makes way too much sense!
Hold up!
DKREDT I was not "crying" about being sued. I was just simply stating facts and trying to help answer the question of this whole thread. Is it legal or not. I was just explaining the process and added why I do not use them. I simply pointed out that it is not legal in most places if not nationwide.
You say
Do you think it is not right for the Electric company to charge one person more of a deposit to get lights with bad credit as opposed to one with good? If you give somebody lights with bad credit is that like giving a druggy more drugs too? Electricity is like a car it is not a necessity of life but it sure is nice.
You say
I was not complaining, this is my living I know what I am doing I know I am going to lose on some customers, just part of life. So do not assume anything about me please, not trying to be a smart*ss. I was just stating my point of view as you were.
You say
DKREDT I was not "crying" about being sued. I was just simply stating facts and trying to help answer the question of this whole thread. Is it legal or not. I was just explaining the process and added why I do not use them. I simply pointed out that it is not legal in most places if not nationwide.
You say
Do you think it is not right for the Electric company to charge one person more of a deposit to get lights with bad credit as opposed to one with good? If you give somebody lights with bad credit is that like giving a druggy more drugs too? Electricity is like a car it is not a necessity of life but it sure is nice.
You say
I was not complaining, this is my living I know what I am doing I know I am going to lose on some customers, just part of life. So do not assume anything about me please, not trying to be a smart*ss. I was just stating my point of view as you were.
You say
Just to make clear, I was not crying about being sued just stating the facts and trying to help this guy understand what he was asking about. My business is just fine. So please do not direct comments at me personally. Not trying to start anything or be a jerk but I did not post to get bashed personally. Thanks!
