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Vampire

Up all night
Joined
Jul 31, 2010
Hey guys,


I wanted to share some results of the work I've been doing to the finish on the GN. I'm restoring the 24 year-old paint job to as close as I can get it to new, and trying out some new products and tools to get the job done, so I'm gonna post progress on this thread to hopefully help others out.


I AM NOT A PROFESSIONAL DETAILER. I'm like most of you, just been washing/waxing for years in search of the perfect products and finish. Hopefully this will help any other DIY-ers - if I can do this, you can too, because I'm starting completely from scratch here.


So...I'm working with a decent foundation because the car was garaged and not neglected, and it doesn't suffer from many of the problems that GNs do, like flaking clearcoat, checking, fading etc. However, there are pretty obvious hard water spots on the entire car, and a lot of surface scratches/swirling that really show the car's age. First step is to get rid of these.


After washing the car with Dawn dishwashing detergent to remove all traces of old wax and claying the entire surface, I started with an excellent product that I've used before with great results, Zaino ZPC Swirl Remover. A few years ago I did my 2007 GMC Pickup (black) from bumper to bumper after a couple years of crappy car-wash washes covered the truck in swirls. After I was done, the paint was FLAWLESS. The GN's paint is a lot older and has water spots whereas the GMC did not.


Here is a link to the product website for more info. I've used Zaino for over 10 years and swear by their products. They aren't cheap but they are WELL worth the money!
Z-PC Fusion Dual Action Paint Cleaner Swirl Remover: Zaino Store


Here is a BEFORE/AFTER side-by-side shot of one pass with this product BY HAND
SAM_0016.jpg



And another...you can see a slight amount of hologramming in this one (more on that later)
SAM_0017.jpg



I managed to finish the whole drivers side by hand (NOT easy!) This pic doesn't show much detail, or what it looked like before, but I will post several before/after pics up later. Its a HUGE difference.
SAM_0019.jpg



You can clearly see the difference in the clarity of the finish in the side-to-side photos - this product removes the swirls completely, and nearly all surface scratches (some of the deeper ones are diminished but not removed completely.) The ZPC also removed all the water spots and the surface looks much "blacker", like ink, compared to the hazy unfinished side.


Doing this by hand was a B****! Because I have a black truck and another recent addition to the family also in black (see below) I went ahead and pulled the trigger on a rotary buffer. I bought a Metabo PE12-175 with a Lake Country 4 3/4" backing plate, and a set of Lake Country CCS Polishing Pads in Orange (for swirl removal), Green (cleaning/polishing), and Red (high-gloss finishing) that should be here this week. :cool:


I have a lot of experience using rotary buffers in the marble industry, but I've never used them on a vehicle, so I'll be practicing on some older cars or possibly a junk hood before I tackle these projects. The GN looks pretty good done by hand especially given that this is the first step, but the rotary will get the job done in 1/10 the time and should get rid of the hologramming effect I was seeing, especially once I move up to glossier non-abrasive polishes.


I plan to follow the ZPC with ZAIO as a base coat, then Z-5 to polish and fill in small scratches, then Z-2 for the highest shine possible (all products by Zaino.) I'll post pics of all my progress and share any info I can. Hope this is helpful to anyone planning to do the same!


This is the most recent addition to the collection...a bone stock 1999 WS6 Trans Am with only 5K on the clock. :biggrin: Its filthy because the previous owner had money problems and had to store it outside for several months, so the Before/After pics for this will be dramatic!
IMG_0496.jpg
 
The car looks really good. I've been buffing for about 12 years and I learn something every time the wheel is turning on the buffer. If you enjoy doing stuff like this then I STRONGLY SUGGEST AN ORBITAL buffer to go along with the rotary. I read the Zaino aricle that you pinned and if you pan down to the paragraph dicussing the red corvette the detailer says..." I then took a Porter Cable random orbital machine with a Lake Country white pad with ZPC. I was beyond floored with amazement with the extreme flawless results I got from ZPC and how easy it was to use and how easy the cleanup after using was also. I know that I am a pro, but ZPC is so easy to use with a PC and takes very little effort. The finish left behind was absolutly swirl free, vibrant, extremely glossy and very bright with no oily feel at all. An orbital makes a world of difference as far as cleaning up swirl marks left from a buffer". After I compound with a rotary I go over the same area with an orbital. After a few passes I wipe all of the compound off (Zaino) and then wipe the surfaces with alcohol. The alcohol removes all of the compound that's left behind on the paint. Then you can go to town with a favorite polish until you have the desired shine. I've been using Meguiars professional 105 and 205. Available at body shop supply parts stores (some Advance Auto parts carry it). One is a compound and the other is a polish. There are no fillers in this stuff and works very well with each other. Keep your pads clean and primed with some sort of a body shine spray. Can't wait to see the Trans Am done. Michael
 
thks for posting..... i wish my car had paint good enough to buff.... unfortunately i fall into the category of lack clear:mad: and bad fading on top surfaces...
 
Looks good, but you could get that finish much, much better with an orbital polisher and some proper compound/polish. As turboclam said, get some Megs 105/205 and youll really see the difference in the paint. Top it off with some #7 pure polish and youll be floored. That stuff is absolutely unreal on dark single-stage paints. Good luck, wish I still had original paint.
 
New BC/CC on my 55.
Vette blu metallic and Moostang silver metallic.
Car has yet to be washed or driven. I need to clean it up, and do a final buff, then some wax...Suggestions???
 
Hey Chuck, so your 55 is a two tone... would love to see a pic. Has it been wetsanded and buffed out yet? I would look for a sealer like Liquid Glass, it will harden over the clear. You can go over the sealer after a few days with a Carnauba wax for a deep gloss. Carnauba just doesn't last that long but it does make it shine. Need to find out if Liquid Glass can be used on fresh paint though. How fresh is it? Michael
 
New...

Hey Chuck, so your 55 is a two tone... would love to see a pic. Has it been wetsanded and buffed out yet? I would look for a sealer like Liquid Glass, it will harden over the clear. You can go over the sealer after a few days with a Carnauba wax for a deep gloss. Carnauba just doesn't last that long but it does make it shine. Need to find out if Liquid Glass can be used on fresh paint though. How fresh is it? Michael

Michael, the paint has been on the car, except for 1 fender, since last Sept. I've been re-assembling it, and finally got the fender about a week ago.

It appears the entire car needs a 3000 wet, and a buff. [It has been buffed once, right after the pieces were painted.]

I spent some time at the Zaino site....Not sure what I need, if anything, from them.
I'm familiar w/ Liquid Glass. Have never used it. Carnuba wax...Haven't used it for many yrs! I used Mcguires on the HEMI car....
I'll have some completed pics soon.

Thanks for the reply.
 

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Do you know the last grit that was used? Will you be doing the 3000 grit buffing? Meguiars has some really good sandpaper that is more uniform than the traditional wetsanding paper. They are proud of it too! Makes buffing out the sandlines easier and smoother. I've heard great things about Zaino but I've never had the pleasure. I have also used Meguiars Yellow wax and that stuff works for a long time. After the 3000 buffing job I would look into a sealer as stated before. After the sealer dries and hardens you can apply a shine wax/gloss over top. The sealer will help with deflect small road rash/chips. I will await for pics of the 55. Oh, Nick Micale says hi from AZ. He is building my 016 block at TA performance.
 
Yea, that new Meguiars paper, Unigrit, is amazing. I DA sanded a car last summer with 3000 Megs Unigrit then compounded and polished and it came out amazing. I have heard of some cases where people can actually remove the Unigit sanding marks by DA because they are so uniform compared with conventional paper. I havent tried that yet, but I dont doubt it.
 
The car looks really good. I've been buffing for about 12 years and I learn something every time the wheel is turning on the buffer. If you enjoy doing stuff like this then I STRONGLY SUGGEST AN ORBITAL buffer to go along with the rotary. I read the Zaino aricle that you pinned and if you pan down to the paragraph dicussing the red corvette the detailer says..." I then took a Porter Cable random orbital machine with a Lake Country white pad with ZPC. I was beyond floored with amazement with the extreme flawless results I got from ZPC and how easy it was to use and how easy the cleanup after using was also. I know that I am a pro, but ZPC is so easy to use with a PC and takes very little effort. The finish left behind was absolutly swirl free, vibrant, extremely glossy and very bright with no oily feel at all. An orbital makes a world of difference as far as cleaning up swirl marks left from a buffer". After I compound with a rotary I go over the same area with an orbital. After a few passes I wipe all of the compound off (Zaino) and then wipe the surfaces with alcohol. The alcohol removes all of the compound that's left behind on the paint. Then you can go to town with a favorite polish until you have the desired shine. I've been using Meguiars professional 105 and 205. Available at body shop supply parts stores (some Advance Auto parts carry it). One is a compound and the other is a polish. There are no fillers in this stuff and works very well with each other. Keep your pads clean and primed with some sort of a body shine spray. Can't wait to see the Trans Am done. Michael

Thats good advice. I used to use Meguiar's and was more satisfied with Zaino when I discovered it - however I only ever compared their off the shelf products, and that was years ago. I would not be above doing one car with one system and another with a competitors...as a matter of fact I plan to get a beat up hood from Pick-A-Part to practice with the rotary, so maybe I can do a side-by-side with both systems and post pics.

I want to get the BEST finish possible, and this is mostly an experiment and process of discovery for me. I'm brand loyal to a point, but results are what matters ;) Also, I'm pretty committed to the Metabo buffer (I love their tools) but I'm debating getting an orbital or dual-action to complement the rotary. I hear good things about Porter-Cable products, and might buy one to try out. Any input on this?

BTW I too am REALLY looking forward to digging into the T/A. I love the curves on that car! I've been drooling over that car since it came out when I was in high school, and I can't believe its in my garage. That will be a rewarding project for me because I'm so into the car, it has such a challenging body to work with due to all the curves, and it really looks like total crap right now, so the difference will be HUGE.

Looks good, but you could get that finish much, much better with an orbital polisher and some proper compound/polish. As turboclam said, get some Megs 105/205 and youll really see the difference in the paint. Top it off with some #7 pure polish and youll be floored. That stuff is absolutely unreal on dark single-stage paints. Good luck, wish I still had original paint.

I just started what I anticipate being a long and interesting process, so this is far from a finished product. The purpose of my post was to show the first step of this process, and also to demonstrate the dramatic difference that ONE pass with the ZPC made in reduction of surface scratches and swirls. Not a finished product by any means. If you see a single scratch when I'm truly done, I wanna hear about it :tongue: But like I posted above I may try both Meguiars' and Zaino to compare. Or other products...hell maybe I'll just buy em all :biggrin:

Yea, that new Meguiars paper, Unigrit, is amazing. I DA sanded a car last summer with 3000 Megs Unigrit then compounded and polished and it came out amazing. I have heard of some cases where people can actually remove the Unigit sanding marks by DA because they are so uniform compared with conventional paper. I havent tried that yet, but I dont doubt it.

I don't think I have the guts to take paper to my cars, except for spot treatments of deep scratches. You sir are more of a man than me, lol.

Speaking of sandpaper I have a new project to add to this thread...I backed my new truck into a tree branch that grew remarkably fast after our recent rains and began to jut right out into my parking spot without me even noticing! After angrily chopping off the branch :rolleyes: I surveyed the damage and some sandpaper will definitely be needed to remove the 4ft long scratch on my rear fender. I'll definitely post before/during/after shots of that process too. BTW 3 passes of Meguiar's Scratch 2.0 (I left my ZPC at the shop) ALMOST took care of it, but they're just a hair too deep.

Thanks for all the feedback guys, its all appreciated. Many more pics and info to come...
 
Newbe at detailing,
turboclam3\87gninpa what kind of pads do you use with the Meguiars 105 and 205? technique\process? Just bought some after reading this thread.

Last yr I purchased a PortaCable orbital and some Menzerna products, seemed to work OK but didn't seem to have enough to get the water spots and scratches out of the paint.
I was able to get a Makita rotary fairly cheap and I have a few Lake County pads so I think I have all the tools now, just need to know the best way to use the tools:D

I will be experimenting on my black GS first then to my GN that still has good original paint (looks like Vampire's) that just needs to be cleaned up correctly.

Thanks
 
Michael, the paint has been on the car, except for 1 fender, since last Sept. I've been re-assembling it, and finally got the fender about a week ago.

It appears the entire car needs a 3000 wet, and a buff. [It has been buffed once, right after the pieces were painted.]

I spent some time at the Zaino site....Not sure what I need, if anything, from them.
I'm familiar w/ Liquid Glass. Have never used it. Carnuba wax...Haven't used it for many yrs! I used Mcguires on the HEMI car....
I'll have some completed pics soon.

Thanks for the reply.

Chuck...I didnt know you had a HEMI car!!! I have a 64 Maxxie. Did you know that? I now love you!!!!!:D

:biggrin:
 

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Newbe at detailing,
turboclam3\87gninpa what kind of pads do you use with the Meguiars 105 and 205? technique\process? Just bought some after reading this thread.

Last yr I purchased a PortaCable orbital and some Menzerna products, seemed to work OK but didn't seem to have enough to get the water spots and scratches out of the paint.
I was able to get a Makita rotary fairly cheap and I have a few Lake County pads so I think I have all the tools now, just need to know the best way to use the tools:D

I will be experimenting on my black GS first then to my GN that still has good original paint (looks like Vampire's) that just needs to be cleaned up correctly.

Thanks

The PC should be fine for what you are looking to do. A rotary will get the finish even more spectacular and a shorter amount of time but make sure you get some practice panels first. I use the Lake Country CCS pads, they dont get clogged with product easily and are very durable. Use the 105/205 and I promise those water spots will be gone for good! Good luck.
 
Thanks for the info, What about a wool pad? came with the Makita, is it needed with the 105 or would it be too much?

I also have a nasty bird dropping stain on the trunk lid, It looks like it ate the paint a little, I may need to wet sand it if this dosen't work.

Sorry to hi jack the thread.:redface:
 
For a rotary yes, you can use a wool pad. Just be very careful and dont hit any edges, youll lose your paint real quick. I would try the DA on it first with the 105 and an orange pad, then go to the rotary/wool if the DA doesnt work. I have yet to come across a bird dropping/acid etching that a DA cant get out.
 
Thanks for the info, What about a wool pad? came with the Makita, is it needed with the 105 or would it be too much?

I also have a nasty bird dropping stain on the trunk lid, It looks like it ate the paint a little, I may need to wet sand it if this dosen't work.

Sorry to hi jack the thread.:redface:

Thief! :biggrin: Actually it looks like we're dealing with the same issues here so its good that you jumped in the thread. Looking forward to seeing your results.

For a rotary yes, you can use a wool pad. Just be very careful and dont hit any edges, youll lose your paint real quick. I would try the DA on it first with the 105 and an orange pad, then go to the rotary/wool if the DA doesnt work. I have yet to come across a bird dropping/acid etching that a DA cant get out.

I hear (from a lot of reading around forums and the like) that wool is pretty aggressive and really not recommended for the inexperienced...plus the CCS pads with modern compounds and polishes are supposed to be so effective its rarely necessary to use wool. I'm too scared to use wool :redface:
 
The PC should be fine for what you are looking to do. A rotary will get the finish even more spectacular and a shorter amount of time but make sure you get some practice panels first. I use the Lake Country CCS pads, they dont get clogged with product easily and are very durable. Use the 105/205 and I promise those water spots will be gone for good! Good luck.

Have you used the LC Kompressor pads? They're supposed to be better for cars with curves apparently.

Here are the cars I'm doing: 87 GN, 2011 GMC p/u, 1999 Trans Am WS6, and 2006 Porsche Boxster (all are black.) Due to the long, flat panels on Buick and the GMC I opted for the 6" CCS pads since they are flatter, and have proven results.

But I was thinking about using Kompressors on the T/A and the Porsche since both cars are VERY curvy. Or I may just get a smaller backing plate/pads for some tough areas (i.e. the WS6 hood.) Any ideas/experiences with this?
 
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