Hydraulic roller problem - cam sensor tight HELP!

2

2buicks

It's NEVER "Done".
Joined
Aug 6, 2002
Hi, Complete rebuild (build up) and motor is still on the stand. Got everything bolted up and I went to drop in the cam sensor to find that it won't drop in freely. I tapped it gently and it starts to go down but obviously will just eat the gear. It is a Comp hydraulic roller. It appears the camshaft drive gear (for the cam sensor) is too far forward? It's not like it can be adjusted (without machining the thrust surface of the cam...or block) Anyone have any ideas?

Also, if anyone out there has a stock cam, (smart me...got rid of mine..UGH!) I was wondering if they could give me a measurement from the thrust surface to both sides of the camshaft drive gear. (front and rear) I could then compare with my Comp to see how much of a "gear location" issue there is.

Please help if you can!!

Greg =(
 
Your best bet is to call Weber Racing. With Comp Cams, they have the correct stuff for the Roller Cams.
 
Is this a billet cam with a modular nose? If it is it can be adjusted. Ive never seen a cast cam that was a problem
 
Take the o ring of the sensor and try and get it to drop in. Ive had some that were tight but the o ring was the issue.
 
bison said:
Take the o ring of the sensor and try and get it to drop in. Ive had some that were tight but the o ring was the issue.
Click to expand...

I would be concerned that the gear would wear prematurely...It really seems tight and I have lubricated the s**t out of the sensor too....including the o-ring...

Also, wouldn't I get oil seeping then? from the sensor?
 
You are only removing the o ring to see if it's the problem. If you can get it down without the o ring the cam is not the problem
 
2buicks said:
I would be concerned that the gear would wear prematurely...It really seems tight and I have lubricated the s**t out of the sensor too....including the o-ring...

Also, wouldn't I get oil seeping then? from the sensor?
Click to expand...

I think he means check it without the o-ring and find out if that's the problem. If it is then you can put the o-ring back on lube it up and push the assembly together without worrying about the gear wearing prematurely.
 
J-B Racing said:
Your best bet is to call Weber Racing. With Comp Cams, they have the correct stuff for the Roller Cams.
Click to expand...

Gave Weber Racing a call, and they have not had any problems with the Comp ductile iron hydraulic rollers they have used.... (Darn! no silver bullet!)
 
Any chance you are using an aftermarket timing cover? If so, they often have the oil pump drive gear and the cam sensor (distributor) hole not machined straight. I've killed a cam sensor before by having the lower bushing spin in the housing. Too much side load. THAT little incident cost me DAYS of work on a new engine. It made aluminum debris in the pan. Had to tear it apart looking for a bad bearing. Couldn't find anything wrong. Looked at the cam sensor and AH-Ha........the lower bushing had spun in the bore. I had to tap the sensor in place, too. So....if it's hard going in.........STOP.
 
turbofabricator said:
Any chance you are using an aftermarket timing cover? If so, they often have the oil pump drive gear and the cam sensor (distributor) hole not machined straight. I've killed a cam sensor before by having the lower bushing spin in the housing. Too much side load. THAT little incident cost me DAYS of work on a new engine. It made aluminum debris in the pan. Had to tear it apart looking for a bad bearing. Couldn't find anything wrong. Looked at the cam sensor and AH-Ha........the lower bushing had spun in the bore. I had to tap the sensor in place, too. So....if it's hard going in.........STOP.
Click to expand...

Not an aftermarket timing cover, not that I know of anyways. After some investigation from BEATAV8's post, it appears my Comp cam may fall in to the era of the wrongly machined cam thrust surface, leaving the cam too far forward...gonna measure tonite.
 
2buicks said:
.......... Got everything bolted up and I went to drop in the cam sensor to find that it won't drop in freely. I tapped it gently and it starts to go down but obviously will just eat the gear....Greg =(
Click to expand...

Are you saying that the cam sensor will NOT seat at all, or is the last 1/4" of travel very hard to seat?

If it is the latter, that should be no problem. Many times I have to tap the sensor in place after it is lined up with both new cams, as well as original stock ones. Very seldom does the sensor just drop in place by hand. :)

I use assembly lube on the sensor gear when installing to minimize wear.
 
Nick Micale said:
Are you saying that the cam sensor will NOT seat at all, or is the last 1/4" of travel very hard to seat?

If it is the latter, that should be no problem. Many times I have to tap the sensor in place after it is lined up with both new cams, as well as original stock ones. Very seldom does the sensor just drop in place by hand. :)

I use assembly lube on the sensor gear when installing to minimize wear.
Click to expand...

To give you an idea...after "tapping" it into place, it is not possible (impossible) to rotate (to adjust the cam sensor). I haven't tapped it all the way down for fear of being unable to remove it. The only way it will come out is rotating the engine and it "pops" up. It is most definitely abnormal. I have read a few other posts and I think the cam thrust surface (camshaft) is not machined correctly. Apparently, there were some cams a few years back with this problem. My cam was originally purchased in 2008. (yes it is taking me forever to finish this!)
 
Can you post a picture of the cover? The one time I had that problem it was an aftermarket cover. The cover was totally unusable. The cam sensor didn't fit and the gear pocket for the oil pump was off center :mad:
 
mikestertwo said:
Can you post a picture of the cover? The one time I had that problem it was an aftermarket cover. The cover was totally unusable. The cam sensor didn't fit and the gear pocket for the oil pump was off center :mad:
Click to expand...

Gonna check it all out tonite....will post my findings!
 
You either have a pos Chinese timing cover with an improperly machined sensor hole, or the cam thrust surface is too thick. I had the cam cut .040 at my local machine shop to get the proper fit. I had the luxury of having both the old oem cam and an Edelbrock flat tappet stick lying around. They measured identically, but the Comp surface was off. If you have the thick thrust surface, be glad you caught it now. You also have lifter to adjacent lobe interference as a result. All sorts of mayhem will result if that is not corrected. Keep in mind, that you will have to reset cam thrust button clearance with the front cover if you get the cam recut. No big deal, but necessary to compensate for the changes. I had this problem way over a year ago, and it is somwhat surprising that these cams are still being turned out. I cannot help but wonder how many motors had problems due to this. Thanks, Rudy.
 
He still hasn't mentioned if he's using the same cam sensor and the same timing cover. If those are the same ones before the build they may not be a factor.

D
 
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