Hotair or Not?

[esinger]

This past weekend I was at a car show with the GM Turbo 6 car club. We had GNs, T-Types, Syclones and a Turbo Trans Am. Conrad Carter (Who’s account is “Hotair” on this board) was there with his 1984 GN. I believe I was mentioning to someone that I was the only Hotair at the show and Conrad states that he’s a Hotair too. We then started a friendly argument over his car because it has been switched over to an 86/87 intercooled setup. He contends that it’s still a Hotair car.

So what do you think, is he still a Hotair or not?

 

[BRAD_PADGETT]

This past weekend I was at a car show with the GM Turbo 6 car club. We had GNs, T-Types, Syclones and a Turbo Trans Am. Conrad Carter (Who’s account is “Hotair” on this board) was there with his 1984 GN. I believe I was mentioning to someone that I was the only Hotair at the show and Conrad states that he’s a Hotair too. We then started a friendly argument over his car because it has been switched over to an 86/87 intercooled setup. He contends that it’s still a Hotair car.

So what do you think, is he still a Hotair or not?

No- He is an 84GN which no longer can be called a Hot Air because he has an intercooler. My 2 cents. Brad

 

[charlief1]

No- He is an 84GN which no longer can be called a Hot Air because he has an intercooler. My 2 cents. Brad

Gotta agree with Brad on this. Once an intercooler is installed then it an IC set up.

 

[Jerryl]

........... We then started a friendly argument over his car because it has been switched over to an 86/87 intercooled setup. He contends that it’s still a Hotair car.

So what do you think, is he still a Hotair or not?

There have been debates for many years regarding the ”HA stamp”.
Some say that once you run/add alky injection, you have an intercooler.
Some say, as long as you have the turbo in the stock HA location, AND, no air/air IC, you can use alky injection and still be called a HA.

The question is; Will he sell his car as a HA for a HA price?
THAT would answer his own doubt.

 

[Hot Air]

To Whom It May Concern,
When I pop my hood, I don't see an intercooler. There are no badges indentifying it as an "intercooled" car. Since Eric has alcohol injection, which is a chemical intercooler and in plain view, I guess he is no longer a hot air car! When I went looking for a TB.COM name, "Hot Air" was not taken and since my car was built in 84 (one of 2 hot air car years), I jumped on it! In my mind, it is, and always will be, a "hot" air car. Besides, the dash placque says "Hot Air" so I MUST be correct.
Conrad

ps...Eric, there must be something more important for you to worry about!

 

[Boost231]

Gotta agree with Brad on this. Once an intercooler is installed then it an IC set up.

I'm going to agree as well with the above. Alky injection is not intercooling IMOP, now if we could get our air temps down to ambient temps with alky (very hard to do since we have a short intake track) then you could say I have a chemical intercooler. As of right now I'm lucky to get 200deg intake temps so tell me I have a intercooler.

 

[Jerryl]

To Whom It May Concern,
When I pop my hood, I don't see an intercooler. There are no badges indentifying it as an "intercooled" car. Since Eric has alcohol injection, which is a chemical intercooler and in plain view, I guess he is no longer a hot air car! When I went looking for a TB.COM name, "Hot Air" was not taken and since my car was built in 84 (one of 2 hot air car years), I jumped on it! In my mind, it is, and always will be, a "hot" air car. Besides, the dash placque says "Hot Air" so I MUST be correct. ..........

.......... We then started a friendly argument over his car because it has been switched over to an 86/87 intercooled setup. ....

Well, since this is only a "friendly debate" , why don’t we have Eric and Conrad post some RECENT pics of their respective engine compartments. :tongue:
That way, “we the people" can get an accurate vote based on unbiased information.

Conrad,
No disrespect intended . . . HA owners are a “dying breed”, so we have to stick together.
Once we see the pics, the people may vote you into the HA pack. (LOL!! . . I know, "just" what you have been waiting for all your life . . . )

There was a heated argument over this a few years back with “Broke1”, etc.
So heated the thread got closed. ............ Some said that Cal Hartline had the fasted HA ever.
It was a SII, no air/air IC, with alky injection . . . . And the argument continues . . . . With much relativity.

Hey look at it from the bright side: There is actually some bandwidth used in the HA section now. :biggrin:
Anyone second the pics? :wink:

 

[Boost231]

I agree, Post some pictures up. I will tell you real quick who is hotair who is not

 

[esinger]

Hi Conrad,
To some extent I agree that one of the characteristics of alky is to cool down the air temps. However 90% of the Hi Conrad,

To some extent I agree that one of the characteristics of alky is to cool down the air temps. However 90% of the time it's not even working. It only comes on at a certain boost level. A front mount intercooler is always "on" and cooling the air temps (I'm not going to get into heat soak).

When you pop the hood, it's a very nice looking IC setup and I don't believe anyone would ever mistaken as a hot air.

Exterior wise, it does present itself as a hot air car, how about calling it a Cool Air

I'm not worrying about your "Hot Air" account name and the disagreement, just seem a bit hypocritical.

 

[TurboMonte 2]

An oral thermometer on owner's breath exhaust is definitely req'd to settle this once and for all...

 

[esinger]

Conrad's Engine Picture

Here's a picture of Conrad's engine from this past weekend

 

[kh440]

I'm not worrying about your "Hot Air" account name and the disagreement, just seem a bit hypocritical.

Coming from someone whose car "isn't a turbo car" according to at least 2 Einsteins from Saturday (may have been the same ones that said mine was a 75):biggrin:

 

[esinger]

Eric's Picture

Here's Mine

 

[BRAD_PADGETT]

Here's a picture of Conrad's engine from this past weekend

The hoodliner in the picture is even from an intercooled car. Lets chip in and get Conrad a pair of "Intercooled" side badges and a third brake light. This will finish up the conversion project for him!

Just joking. Call this car anything you want as long as the owner is happy with it. Take care. Brad

 

[Boost231]

Without knowing either one of you personally, conrad that's a intercooled engine so its no longer a hotair car, esinger yours is a hotair car.

 

[boostmaster]

Hot Air or not?

Here is my opinion in about as plain as I can describe it. The 84-85 Turbo Regal is a very rare and distinct vehicle. With a particular type of turbo, exhaust, and air induction configuration. Even if you add alcohol to the set up and the factory configuration and plumbing is still used as designed from the factory you're just cooling what's already being delivered to the engine. But still you did not change the design. You bought it and love it for what it is. Now......you get the people that buy Hot Airs and for there own personal reasons, whether it's for performance or for a cheaper way to obtain a Turbo Buick, they change or alter the design. Whether it be by adding additional plumbing and a charge air cooler or putting an 86-87 set up in it. IMHO if your at a car show and you have the hood up with an 86-87 engine in the engine bay nobodys gonna say......hey that's a nice "Hot Air" because honestly they wouldn't know unless you told them. Hell I didn't know the difference until I bought my first Turbo Regal. I thought I was doing something only to be the joke of the club because I had a slow Hot Air. Then I soon learned the differences and the challenges ahead of me. Ok but enough rambling......if you just added an intercooler to your set up your still a Hot Air....just intercooled. If you switched to the 86-87 set up well lets just say you probably won't be in this forum asking for advice from any of us because your no longer part of the crowd. You may have bought a Hot Air but you really desired something else. And I might add since I have owned both anybody can make an 86-87 run but it takes a special breed of person and extreme patience to make a Hot Air run which is the main reason people convert anyway. I like the challenge.

Pete

 

[esinger]

Okay Conrad, here's what you need to do to make everything better:biggrin:

1) Admit your car's not a Hot Air anymore.
2) Bring your car up here.
3) I'll re-introduce to you to a very nice guy named Richard Clark.
4) (This is going to be the hard part) We'll take all those mean IC parts off your car.
5) Richard will be sure to keep all those parts so you'll never have to face them again.
6) We'll put all the Hot Air parts back on.
7) You'll be able to drive back home knowing without a doubt your car's once again 100% a Hot Air.

And to help I'll go through my know intercooler removal process too.:tongue:

 

[kh440]

Okay Conrad, here's what you need to do to make everything better:biggrin:

1) Admit your car's not a Hot Air anymore.
2) Bring your car up here.
3) I'll re-introduce to you to a very nice guy named Richard Clark.
4) (This is going to be the hard part) We'll take all those mean IC parts off your car.
5) Richard will be sure to keep all those parts so you'll never have to face them again.
6) We'll put all the Hot Air parts back on.
7) You'll be able to drive back home knowing without a doubt your car's once again 100% a Hot Air.

And to help I'll go through my know intercooler removal process too.:tongue:

now that's funny I don't care who ya are!!:biggrin:

 

[turbonut85]

Okay Conrad, here's what you need to do to make everything better:biggrin:

1) Admit your car's not a Hot Air anymore.
2) Bring your car up here.
3) I'll re-introduce to you to a very nice guy named Richard Clark.
4) (This is going to be the hard part) We'll take all those mean IC parts off your car.
5) Richard will be sure to keep all those parts so you'll never have to face them again.
6) We'll put all the Hot Air parts back on.
7) You'll be able to drive back home knowing without a doubt your car's once again 100% a Hot Air.

And to help I'll go through my know intercooler removal process too.:tongue:

HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Now THAT'S my kinda intercooler!!!!!!!!!


Just having a laugh.....
BTW, my vote:
Conrad's: NOT a Hot Air
Eric's: Hot Air

If you put an intercooler on a Hot Air, it would be an I/C car, NOT a Hot Air, PERIOD.

As far as alky, being an intercooler....not sure I agree with that statement either. If I run 100% E-85 in my Hot Air, does that make it intercooled?? I don't think it does. It's just different fuel, with a higher octane rating.

Ahh, but the debate will rage on, I'm sure. Oh well....I'll just enjoy the fun of both my cars....the I/C'd 87 AND the H/A 85!!!! :biggrin:

Just my .02
---Keith

 

[Hot Air]

I bought the car new in 1984, well before anyone had ever heard of intercooling. I liked the interior and the fact that it was SFI. Plus, it ran good for 1984. Being a turbocharged 6 cylinder made it even more attractive to the engineer in me. FWIW, I had a buddy in high school that had a 63 Spyder and it was unreal! If I had had any idea that Buick would have made an intercooled version just 2 years later, I would have waited.

Eric and I have had a lot of fun kidding each other about this. FWIW, I still have the 60k miles hot air engine in my garage. Who knows, I may re-install it someday just to irritate my engineer son, Adam. Then Eric and I could have some real fun! I admire (and continue to encourage) Eric @ the hot air setup. He truly is a great guy that loves a challenge. I might add that he has run some quick numbers with his GN! So, beware of "The Eric"! He just might hurt your feelings.
Conrad
"Hot" Air