horsepower and boost
- Thread starter buzzman
- Start date
- Joined
- May 9, 2002
I've read on this board that many consider one PSI worth about 10hp....I'd guestimate that abut 6%.
That was Gale Banks. He also says he is responible for the TR/GN. You can go to youtube and type in Gale Banks, muscle car tv and watch that. I was going to post that last night.
He does say 7% and is pretty damn sure of it regardless of parts/tune. I have always run with the 10 hp per # of boost. That show called our engines "cute little turbo engines".
He does say 7% and is pretty damn sure of it regardless of parts/tune. I have always run with the 10 hp per # of boost. That show called our engines "cute little turbo engines".
Not to argue, but I did watch the video and in his defense, he did say it was 7% increase as long as the TEMP doesnt change... which we know it does... The more the PSI, the warmer the intake charge gets. So its not going to be an exact science.
It does depend on how well you re-cool the air in the intercooler or with alky or whatever.
He also said 1% HP increase for every 10 degrees COOLER the air intake temp gets, but the PRESSURE must remain the same.
And he didnt really say he was responsible for the TR/GN... he said did a twin turbo setup in 1981 with that engine and made something like 371 hp...
And also they called all the turbo charged engines in the 80s-90s "cute little turbocharged engines" and showed some fords, dodges, and GNs.
They just so happened to finish the sentence right as they showed a GN.
Im just clarifying, not trying to argue or be a dick or anything.
It does depend on how well you re-cool the air in the intercooler or with alky or whatever.
He also said 1% HP increase for every 10 degrees COOLER the air intake temp gets, but the PRESSURE must remain the same.
And he didnt really say he was responsible for the TR/GN... he said did a twin turbo setup in 1981 with that engine and made something like 371 hp...
And also they called all the turbo charged engines in the 80s-90s "cute little turbocharged engines" and showed some fords, dodges, and GNs.
They just so happened to finish the sentence right as they showed a GN.
Im just clarifying, not trying to argue or be a dick or anything.
What a dick...:biggrin:
Yeah, I have selective hearing and a genuine dislike for Banks Engineering. I will not argue that Gale knows his stuff when it comes to forced induction.
I did like his take on Nitrous. Get the power from turbocharging and or supercharging....then if you think you need more power, do the nitrous.
I thought he did say that the development of the tr was a result of that tt set up?
Yeah, I have selective hearing and a genuine dislike for Banks Engineering. I will not argue that Gale knows his stuff when it comes to forced induction.
I did like his take on Nitrous. Get the power from turbocharging and or supercharging....then if you think you need more power, do the nitrous.
I thought he did say that the development of the tr was a result of that tt set up?
"I thought he did say that the development of the tr was a result of that tt setup?"
I dont honestly remember if thats what he said, and I dont feel like watching it again to find out! LOL!
But he is an arrogant SOB, and I dont love him either, but he does know his sh!t too, so I respect that.
I dont honestly remember if thats what he said, and I dont feel like watching it again to find out! LOL!
But he is an arrogant SOB, and I dont love him either, but he does know his sh!t too, so I respect that.
nordy racer
Active Member
- Joined
- Aug 2, 2004
I've read on this board that many consider one PSI worth about 10hp....I'd guestimate that abut 6%.
i would think it would also depend on how the car flows air too (heads, cam, DP)... i always fall back on the 10 to 11hp per 1 PSI too..
well generally, your horsepower will double for every bar of pressure, so if you make 200 hp N/A, you will make 400 at 14.7 psi and 600 at 29.4 assuming that you have an efficient intercooler. But 100%/14.7=6.8% per psi, hence the stated calculation by banks
we may have seen different shows.....i was half asleep....but this guy was some sort of a turbo diesel guru, his claim was that the turbo diesel set-up was to become the muscle car motor of the future. His main point was that the t-diesel setup would not have the octane problem that we all deal with. I see how the dutt-neck folks make their claim, it usually adds about a pound and a half of boost, on a 300 horse motor that would be approx 10%, therefore a 30 hp gain.
Same show. He was talking about making the diesel lighter...yada yada yada. You don't have to worry about detonation, cuz diesels run off of detonation.
He is a pretty large seller of aftermarket parts and tuning stuff for the diesel market. Unbelievably expensive / over rated.
He is a pretty large seller of aftermarket parts and tuning stuff for the diesel market. Unbelievably expensive / over rated.
The numbers quoted are all right or all wrong depending on the combo and target numbers. A high revving, high compression S2 will pick up a hell of a lot more than 10-15hp per psi of manifold pressure. For an 9.5:1 engine that revs to 7k or more id guess more like 30-35 hp per psi in the meat of the compressor efficiency range with the proper turbo and maybe lot more in a race application where the rpm range is very high and narrow. Most TSO big boys are making 1000 hp or more. Most arent over 35 psi manifold pressure. You can calculate those numbers:biggrin: .This of course on an engine that is built totally around boost and not a hodge podge of parts slapped together by some shade tree mechanic with a MIG welder and too much time on his hands. On a stocker however the hp would be much less per psi of manifold pressure. 10-12hp would be a high guess on an otherwise stock engine. A mild stock block like the one in my sig probably makes about 600 at the flywheel at 24 psi. I doubt it makes much more than a bone stocker out of boost though. But still a lot more than 10 psi per psi. Building around the boost will net a lot more than 10hp per psi of manifold pressure in most instances. Banks can eat a turd!
Banks
Banks is right about Diesels he's still messing with big heavy American Iron Diesels to get power he's way behind. Audi is years ahead of his diesel turbo hypothesis and have spent millions on the R10 Race car, aluminum block diesel with TDI turbocharged direct injection, titanium rods, titanium this and that, more head bolts then you can throw at an engine in their Daytona/Lemans Series R10 makes like 800 hp they all ways put torque in nanometers I can barely figure out atmospheres 1atm =14.7 bar, but it's way up there with traction control they have won the series 6 years runnin, the last 2 or 3yrs. with TDI diesels before it was the gas engine R8's. Think their diesel motor weighs only 400lbs. The Audi racing Diesels are crazy bad aand durable have won the 24hrs of Lemans 3xs think they stopped counting. Now Peugot believe it or not, Yes even them spineless French have a TDI turbo Diesel that came in 2nd this year to the Dominant Audi diesel team, not bad for their 1st time out with a Race car built around a diesel engine and old man Banks is jackin with a heavy American made DuraMax in a pickem up truck. the weight ratio is like 70/30 what a lead sled. These Audi and Peugot diesels don't blow black smoke and are very quiet compared to the diesels we are used too. They are years and millions ahead of Banks engineering. These Teams have Boost down to a fine science they monitor every inch of that engine and know exactly what their engine outputs are at any level on any given day whatever the temp,altitude, density, humidity and I have a little Scan Master tuning my lil 231 ci Turbocharged beast with NB O2 sensor and tuning for no kr 1/4 mile at a time at a mile high with 91 octane.
Banks is right about Diesels he's still messing with big heavy American Iron Diesels to get power he's way behind. Audi is years ahead of his diesel turbo hypothesis and have spent millions on the R10 Race car, aluminum block diesel with TDI turbocharged direct injection, titanium rods, titanium this and that, more head bolts then you can throw at an engine in their Daytona/Lemans Series R10 makes like 800 hp they all ways put torque in nanometers I can barely figure out atmospheres 1atm =14.7 bar, but it's way up there with traction control they have won the series 6 years runnin, the last 2 or 3yrs. with TDI diesels before it was the gas engine R8's. Think their diesel motor weighs only 400lbs. The Audi racing Diesels are crazy bad aand durable have won the 24hrs of Lemans 3xs think they stopped counting. Now Peugot believe it or not, Yes even them spineless French have a TDI turbo Diesel that came in 2nd this year to the Dominant Audi diesel team, not bad for their 1st time out with a Race car built around a diesel engine and old man Banks is jackin with a heavy American made DuraMax in a pickem up truck. the weight ratio is like 70/30 what a lead sled. These Audi and Peugot diesels don't blow black smoke and are very quiet compared to the diesels we are used too. They are years and millions ahead of Banks engineering. These Teams have Boost down to a fine science they monitor every inch of that engine and know exactly what their engine outputs are at any level on any given day whatever the temp,altitude, density, humidity and I have a little Scan Master tuning my lil 231 ci Turbocharged beast with NB O2 sensor and tuning for no kr 1/4 mile at a time at a mile high with 91 octane.
Not with our weak bottom ends. Maybe on a series 2 or stage 2.Someday, someone will make some direct injection compatibale pistons and heads for the TR. (Like Honda has ......... I think)
That will be a step in the right direction ..........
Gm
Gm has already come out with a V6 3.6L with DI this next year. It is a 304hp DOHC DI at 6200rpmthat is the top end motor for the Cadillac CTS. Mated to a 6 speed Auto in either AWD or RWD. Ought to be a peppy Caddy. Wonder how long it will be before they supecharge that DI V6. Was looking for specs on the bottom end of this new GM motor. You can also get the same DI engine in the STS. From what I researched the engine has almost 280lbs of torque at 5200 .
Found some cool stuff with DI V6 allows them to use higher CR 11:1, all aluminum block and heads, dual cam 4 valves per cylinder, forged crank,forged rods, high pressure fuel pump no return SS fuel system the max psi with DI is 1740psi. Injectors that vary flow pattern and resistant to heat ,injectors are under intake runners. No EGR the phasing cam can draw back exhaust to be burned by varying the overlap. pistons are coated and have aluminum pins and oil squitters, it's their highest output non turbo charged engine. The biggest thing is emmissions with the phasing and overlapping decreases NOX by 25% no EGR or AIR also decreses Hydrocarbons by 25% on cold start because fuel is directly put into combustion chamber, this is where the majority of hydrocarbons in the ozone come from Cold Starts. Makes you wanna hug a tree. Thought it was GM's 1st DI engine but I guess the had a couple 4 bangers come out this last year
They have a new ECM that controls the direct injection on this V6 which is their old VVTengine (variable Valve Timing) they gained over 15% INCREASE in hp. Would be interesting if one could try DI on a beefed up Stage engine, get the ECM, fuel pump, SS fuel rail and special injectors and intake, it it coil on plug design.
Gm has already come out with a V6 3.6L with DI this next year. It is a 304hp DOHC DI at 6200rpmthat is the top end motor for the Cadillac CTS. Mated to a 6 speed Auto in either AWD or RWD. Ought to be a peppy Caddy. Wonder how long it will be before they supecharge that DI V6. Was looking for specs on the bottom end of this new GM motor. You can also get the same DI engine in the STS. From what I researched the engine has almost 280lbs of torque at 5200 .
Found some cool stuff with DI V6 allows them to use higher CR 11:1, all aluminum block and heads, dual cam 4 valves per cylinder, forged crank,forged rods, high pressure fuel pump no return SS fuel system the max psi with DI is 1740psi. Injectors that vary flow pattern and resistant to heat ,injectors are under intake runners. No EGR the phasing cam can draw back exhaust to be burned by varying the overlap. pistons are coated and have aluminum pins and oil squitters, it's their highest output non turbo charged engine. The biggest thing is emmissions with the phasing and overlapping decreases NOX by 25% no EGR or AIR also decreses Hydrocarbons by 25% on cold start because fuel is directly put into combustion chamber, this is where the majority of hydrocarbons in the ozone come from Cold Starts. Makes you wanna hug a tree. Thought it was GM's 1st DI engine but I guess the had a couple 4 bangers come out this last year
They have a new ECM that controls the direct injection on this V6 which is their old VVTengine (variable Valve Timing) they gained over 15% INCREASE in hp. Would be interesting if one could try DI on a beefed up Stage engine, get the ECM, fuel pump, SS fuel rail and special injectors and intake, it it coil on plug design.
