another thing is that rjc headgaskets require multiple head retorques per season. it should have been in your instructions and on the website just retorque them before you torch the block and head. and believe me it will torch a small trench in the block or head
****HELP! Strange sound only at full throttle****
- Thread starter tufbuick
- Start date
Problem Solved!!! :biggrin: :biggrin: :biggrin:
Brought the car back to my guy and we re-torqued the head studs.
Cranked it up to 21lbs of boost w/Alky set @ #6.....NO NOISE !!!
They were definately not at 85lbs....somewhere around 55-60lbs.
Drove home in N.Y.C. traffic and my temp is still 160 w/o coolent loss.
Thanks to everyone for their comments and suggestions.
Brought the car back to my guy and we re-torqued the head studs.
Cranked it up to 21lbs of boost w/Alky set @ #6.....NO NOISE !!!
They were definately not at 85lbs....somewhere around 55-60lbs.
Drove home in N.Y.C. traffic and my temp is still 160 w/o coolent loss.
Thanks to everyone for their comments and suggestions.
Syclone0044
Full Street Trim
- Joined
- Apr 7, 2002
Unbelievable!! Thanks for keeping us updated.
glad to hear
You haven't solved your problem. You only tightend the head bolts. You haven't eliminated the cause of the looseness. Until you stop using alcohol or figure out why cylinder pressures rise so dramatically when using alcohol,you'll destroy those gaskets. Stop using the alcohol now before its to late and you hear that noise again and get that sick feeling in the pit of your stomach. I know you won't stop but I couldn't say nothing. I didn't say no to alcohol untill the 4th set of head gaskets. I hope you don't wait that long.
this makes no sense at friggan all. it sounds like you didnt know how to tune your car. i am not bieng a smart a$$ but alcohol has absolutely no reason why this man is litting his heads. rjc headgaskets require a retorque after so many runs. i got felpros and probably have had 200 wot runs and never blew out the side of my gasket. i have blown a headgasket but that was from other reasons. razors kit is a blessing for force fed cars. also the reason you and he didnt have the problem at 13 psi with alky off is because there was enough boost to lift the heads. 15psi was just the magic number
Fellas, lets use this as a learning lesson....I'm not taking any sides on this issue....but let me state the facts.
My engine was in need of a new set of heads because of a severely worn valve guide that ovaled out the valve seat (JUNK).
Since I was going to upgrade to some new items I figured why not try and keep this as bullet proof as possible. I did my research and decided to use the best headgaskets and head studs I could find. (Still satisfied with my choice.)
Unfortunately you can not stand next to your car and supervise every turn of the wrench your mechanic makes. When I picked up my car my guy told me he was satisfied with the torque down of my heads and when I asked him if he followed each step RJC recommends he said he skipped the last one....but everything should be O.K.! (This guy is a long time Buick vendor/shop that has been working on all three of my Buicks and I trust his judgement).
This is an example of someone not paying attention to the directions of the manufacturer, nothing more. We all make mistakes, he made a mistake and made good on it. I also know him well enough to say he would have made good had any further damage been done to my engine because of his oversight. He is an honest business man and he didn't try to weisel out of this situation like some other Buick bigshots I've used in the past.
Fact is Fact. The heads were not torqued down correctly and this has nothing to do with anyones alcohol injection.
The car runs strong and I've been told...."if anything else arises because of this issue, bring it back and it will be addressed" !
Thanks again for all the input and I hope this experience can help someone else avoid this same situation.
My engine was in need of a new set of heads because of a severely worn valve guide that ovaled out the valve seat (JUNK).
Since I was going to upgrade to some new items I figured why not try and keep this as bullet proof as possible. I did my research and decided to use the best headgaskets and head studs I could find. (Still satisfied with my choice.)
Unfortunately you can not stand next to your car and supervise every turn of the wrench your mechanic makes. When I picked up my car my guy told me he was satisfied with the torque down of my heads and when I asked him if he followed each step RJC recommends he said he skipped the last one....but everything should be O.K.! (This guy is a long time Buick vendor/shop that has been working on all three of my Buicks and I trust his judgement).
This is an example of someone not paying attention to the directions of the manufacturer, nothing more. We all make mistakes, he made a mistake and made good on it. I also know him well enough to say he would have made good had any further damage been done to my engine because of his oversight. He is an honest business man and he didn't try to weisel out of this situation like some other Buick bigshots I've used in the past.
Fact is Fact. The heads were not torqued down correctly and this has nothing to do with anyones alcohol injection.
The car runs strong and I've been told...."if anything else arises because of this issue, bring it back and it will be addressed" !
Thanks again for all the input and I hope this experience can help someone else avoid this same situation.
I discovered that the alcohol was the problem accidently. After I blew the fourth set of gaskets and was hearing that distinct popping sound I took the car out one day and floored the accellerator pedal.To my suprise the popping sound was gone but I saw some spark retard on my Scan Master. I looked under the hood and discovered that I had blown the hose off the map sensor. That's when I realized that the alky couldn't have worked. I re-connected the hose and the popping came back. As soon as the pump came on at 5#s it made the tell-tail fire cracker snapping noise which means compression pressure was escaping. At full throttle and 20 #s of boost it made the popping noise. I then added some octain booster and turned the alky off and was able to run 20#s of boost with no noise. With alky on it leaked at 5#s. With alky off I was able to run 20 lbs. Is 5#s enough to lift the heads? Why didn't I lose compression at 20#s with no alky after blowing the gaskets? Are you shure I'm an idiot? I stated in my earlier post that some people on the boards replied that I didn't have my car tuned right but didn't offer any specifics as to what was going on or why was the alcohol creating such high cylinder pressures. I then stated that this was no help. You've done the same thing. Again,no help. I also said that alcohol can't be the problem in and of itself because others are running it successfully. I now run 26-27 #s of boost with 110 octain gasoline and found no looseness upon retorque. Is 27#s enough to lift the heads? Why haven't they lifted? There are many others in the buick comunity who have had this same problem and have sworn off alcohol. I don't know why alcohol does this but I do know it's doing it to this guys car and will do it again.
I used the same gaskets and fasteners" the best " and blew them apart. The one thing I did find out through all this is that the factory Buick head gaskets took more abuse than the RJC,or Felpro. The Buick gaskets are the best. All of these gaskets are good but none of them can handle what ever the alcohol is doing. Your heads where torqued down correctly. They weren't re-torqued. What loosened them from 80 to 60? Julio's system is a very good product and his service after the sale is un-mached. I hope you don't wait till the 4th gasket set to realize what i'm saying is true.
Dr.drivability
9 second wannabee
- Joined
- Oct 1, 2005
I woudnt be so sure you are fixed! Mine did the same thing, I retorqued and it was gone. A week later, it's BACK!!! Now instead of 13psi, it does it at 23!!!
Dr.drivability
9 second wannabee
- Joined
- Oct 1, 2005
I dont really think the alky had anything to do with it. I think I waited too long to retorque. I actually called cometic and they too said it would come back! The coolant issue is one thing, but leaking combustion is completely different! Hope youre luck is better than mine! Dave
i am not saying you are lying i just think that was not your problem. alky yes produces more power than race gas because of the faster burn but it also cools the charge that race gas cannot do. when you are using a metal shim gasket you are suppose to retorque after the first heat cycle which this man didnt do as well as you may not have done. your bolts didnt loosen they stretched. not because of the head lifting but when they are new they stretch some wwhen you torque them thats why you do 5 cycles when the bolts are new
your bolts should have been retorqued 5 times before you started the motor. then when you got the car warm then let cool they should have been retorqued a final time. on felpros they need to be torqued 5 times but this is only when the studs are brand new. the felpros do not need a retorqued since they are not metal. not saying i am mr. tuner but i have yes to see or hear a hint of knock with my alky. as for the noise returning it may because you may have burned or melted the gasket depending on how many times you went wot with the noise.
Wow! I give this very detailed description that proves the alcohol was causing my problem and you think that saying " I don't think that was your problem " with no explaination negates everything I wrote. Again,WOW! My studs are the same studs a friend of mine used on a different motor. They've been cycled many more than 5 times. Where did I write that they where new and never cycled? Are you telling me that on the fifth,sixth,and seventh time these bolts were torqued they stretched. If so, how much do you think these bolts can stretch before failure? Are you saying that on the tenth time they finally quit stretching and the fact that I stopped using alcohol at the same time has nothing to do whith my fasteners finally not being loose when I re-torqued them? I wrote that my motor started making noise as soon as the alcohol came on at 5#s of boost and that it didn't make noise all the way up to 20#s of boost with the same blown gaskets and no alcohol. How do you not see that the alcohol is the problem? I'm making more power than ever with more boost than ever and am not blowing gaskets and don't need to re-torque. Why? Please answer any or all of these questions.
My studs had been cycled many times when I used Felpros. The gaskets failed and the studs were loose and I never saw or heard knock. I've been using Felpro gaskets again for 2 years now running 27 lbs. of boost. They haven't failed and the fasteners were still at 85 lbs. 2 weeks ago when I checked them. I haven't re-surfaced the heads or the deck. The only things that have changed is that I don't use alcohol and I run more spark advance. Also, the factory used new torque to yield head bolts and didn't re-torque them.
Your problem is very common. I wish I knew why alcohol does this and could give you some instuction that would allow you to use alcohol,but I don't know the answer. I do know that the alcohol is causing your problem. You're going to blow the gaskets again and when you do you'll probably blame it on not re-torqueing in time and I can't say that would be wrong. I'm trying to stop you from waiting as long as I did to come to my senses. Actually I didn't simply come to my senses. I accidentally proved the alcohol was causing the problem as I described in my earlier post. Also I wanted to further prove it to myself so I only torqued these last gaskets to 70 lbs. as ARP. recommends and ran 22 lbs. of boost and 21 degrees of timing for one year with no failure or looseness. Then I torqued them to 85. I would like to see you make 20 passes with 25 lbs. of boost and 110 octain gasoline then check the fasteners for looseness. Then you could do the same thing with alcohol. This would be a good way to test the theory.
Dr.drivability
9 second wannabee
- Joined
- Oct 1, 2005
Finally tore it down. Found burned fire ring cyl #6. We'll see if that's it saturday!! Ubly draggway. Can I get a 9.999999,PLEASE!!!!!
ALCOHOL is not the problem at all it was your tune. running rape gas at one tune has to be changed totally when running alky. this thread needs to stop until razor or other people chime in to prove that this guy lifted heads from either a bad tune or not retorqing heads as per rjc instructions.
well i run higher timing with alky beacause it lowers my egt's and as for the factory not retorquing is because you do not need to retorque a composite gasket. felpros and the factory one are almost identical except the factory one tend to glue faster because the have more graphite. and also the torque to yeild bolts are stretched to get the proper preload. thats why you stretch the bolt 15 degrees.
