HELP My kid wants to skip college and go straight to the Air force

[86turboSix]

Of course they don't feed you JUST lies...they wrap a small nugget of truth in lies to make them easier to sell.
Recruiters have a quota they have to fill every month and their evals are directly tied to how well they fill those spaces with warm bodies.
Since you became an officer canadite you accounted for high POINTS for your recruiter so it was in HIS best interest to sell that to you. In the Navy a male that is eligble for submarine duty is worth a lot of POINTS for the recruiter...so any man that comes through they push subs on..and if you qualify for NUKE duty on subs??? Only thing worth more points then that is an officer nuke canadite..so they push that one a lot to. And they will tell you whatever they can to make it happen.

Have your son talk to actual vets to find out about becoming a pilot and starting enlisted. Might open his eyes.

Absolutely, have him talk to vets, especially prior enlisted. A great eye opener to the real world: some who are uber proud and nostalgic for their time serving and some who are extremely butthurt about their experience. Theres two sides to it all, and the other side is sacrifice beyond what many can imagine.

My alternatives for the military were plentiful. If he wants to serve his country, and doesn't, well, many people carry that regret for the rest of their lives. Sorry for being gung ho.

 

[RUQWKNF]

I concur with what has been said. Being a pilot of any aircraft in the AF = College or AF Academy.

One question I would ask him is this.

- Does he just have a burning desire to turn and burn? IE: Be a fighter pilot?

If he has high mechanical aptitude and loves working on things mechanical, might I suggest looking into becoming a Crew Chief for fighters? Sure, you don't have the life style of an officer, (no offense to fellow current and past Officers out there) but there's nothing more full filling than fixing or repairing your own aircraft, sending it off on a sortie and having it come back Code 1. Especially when your pilot gets out with a smile on his face. Another bonus is, you do have the chance of winning an incentive flight in the fighter maintenance field. Being a pilot in any branch will definitely be a life style of constant pilot study, that is 100% true.

I too had to make the choice, Navy vs AF and what ultimately swayed my decision was the type of aircraft between services. Both branches are definitely on the cutting edge of technology when it comes it comes to fighter aircraft but the types are very specific to each branch. IE: Navy and Marines have Carrier based models F/A-18C through G model Hornets & Super Hornets and AV-8B Harriers, where as the AF has land based fighters such as F-15C through E model Eagles, F-16C/D Falcons, F/A-22 Raptors, A-10 Warthogs and coming soon F-35 Lightnings. Given, there are land based Marine squadrons out there, but most are assigned to Carrier Air Wings.

Another thing that will be coming soon, will be pilot programs for our UCAV strike aircraft. I'm sure today the qualifications are the same as human piloted aircraft, but this could change as needs dictate for the future. No matter what he chooses, his career options after the military are very good. Especially if he chooses a field with great demand in the civilian world. Has he taken the ASVAB test yet? Those results will definitely help him get a better overall view of his options, no matter which branch he decides to go with. The higher the score, the more your phone will ring from recruiters.

And one last thing too consider is this, in today's job market, having a college degree does not mean you will immediately get a degree matching job. There are a lot of people I know, who have taken the 4-8 year college path who are still looking for a job based on their degree. The job market is flooded and everyone wants experience. Working a job just to pay back your student loans and looking for a degree matching job is rough. On the other hand, joining the military, choosing a full filling job while in, serving your country, getting college paid for and having the ability to go to school while in the service, is a much better option in my opinion, but being a former AF crew chief, I am a little biased.
Hope some of this helps.

Patrick

 

[TURBOPOWERED68]

thanks for all the replies guys i will have my Kid (Daughter) Read them all then read them all again.
She has 100% of my support i just want her to know what she is getting into before she puts her name on the dotted line.

 

[groumoutis]

One more thing to think about that I always told the parents and the kids when I was on recruiting duty.

Only one person has to live the life you choose.

 

[rmar]

Recruiters usually do not lie (contrary to popular beliefs) they just don't tell the whole truth. Yes you can go to college while you are enlisted. a 4 yr. degree witch you must have to be a pilot will probably take 8 yrs to obtain taking part time classes and when they are available. As an X instructor for the USAF I had to be familiar with all of the ways one could benefit or further there education. They do have programs that you can attempt to qualify for that allow you to complete your degree and possibly become a pilot but they are limited and honestly usually go to some senior officers pet. But the recruiter will tell you these are all options. And they are but to only about 2%. I mean he isn't lieing when he tells you that there is a golf course and bowling ally at basic training that you can use in your spare time....:biggrin: But who the F gets any spare time in basic.

O and if they pay of it on a program of that they offer. Usually Medical fields/legal/ Engineering
It is usually a 1.5 or 2 to 1 payback with time....So 4 years college=6 to 8 yrs. of service to repay.

If she want' to be an Officer in the U.S.A.F.........Go To College.

 

[TurboTnZ06]

thanks for all the replies guys i will have my Kid (Daughter) Read them all then read them all again.
She has 100% of my support i just want her to know what she is getting into before she puts her name on the dotted line.

Oh let her know that Embry-Riddle has a male:female student ratio of like eleventy-billion to one, so she'll have the tactical advantage in that area, and the beach is 10 min away.

 

[rmar]

O and they have only the best women in fighters.(That means engineers)or advanced degrees. Most are flying cargo.

 

[GottaBuick]

I have a couple of things to add, first, if she wants to fly then I completly agree with Embry-Riddle. It is an awesome school with the ability to have alot of flight time first hand. After that is she just wants to be a pilot then she can do it, or join the Air Force. Second, you say she doesn't like school, well this route isn't going to get any easier but it is probably more fun!

I personally have couple degrees, one of which is mechanical engineering, and having almost every math, physics, dynamincs, statics, fluid mechanics, thermodynamics classes there is, I don't know how anyone could possibley get a "jet pilot certification/license" without higher education? Engineering has taught me how nature works, not just "cause it does", and personally I would never get around or in a "jet aircraft" that can push and bend the laws of physics/nature with someone who doesn't understand how the laws of physics work!

 

[UNGN]

Oh let her know that Embry-Riddle has a male:female student ratio of like eleventy-billion to one, so she'll have the tactical advantage in that area, and the beach is 10 min away.

Since I graduated from ERAU Prescott in 1988, I can say the ratio is much better now than it was when I went there.

One Semester it was 97:1. Yes, we kept count.

...And since freshman came a week early for orientation, the new girls were already spoken for by the time everyone else arrived back at school.

Not having a beach 10 minutes away was an aide to studying. A 4 year Degree probably would have taken 7 years @ Daytona.

 

[TURBOPOWERED68]

Oh let her know that Embry-Riddle has a male:female student ratio of like eleventy-billion to one, so she'll have the tactical advantage in that area, and the beach is 10 min away.

not sure i want to use this NOT fatherly friendly information.

 

[TurboTnZ06]

not sure i want to use this NOT fatherly friendly information.

I have 2 daughters, but think of it this way, the guys there are going to be aeronautical engineers, computer science/engineering, pilots or some other well educated engineering type guy who isn't a slacker. Who knows, she'll probably make friends there that will be future astronauts, work on the space station and other space programs etc...

 

[UNGN]

ERAU is one of the best colleges for a Woman to go to. She'll have 10 "Big Brothers" within the first week and won't need to spend a dime on gasoline.

ERAU is probably the last college a guy would pick if he was going to college to "hook up" with girls, too.

Even with a college degree from the best private aerospace university in the US and 4 years of ROTC, a pilot slot in the air force is tough to get. She better be a highly self motivated individual.

 

[Instro84]

I have to agree ERAU is a great school, during my 23 years working flight test the best candidates for flight school were the ones that has a degree and a civil pilots license, they pretty much had their pick of what they wanted to fly. One thing to remember also with all the budget cuts flight hours have went way down for stateside pilots except for the guys flying heavys for the reserves.

 

[WH1_T-Type]

any updates on what she is thinking?

 

[chopped39]

I was burned when I was ten which damaged my left eye. They would not even talk to me. When I was 17 my friend and I were causing big trouble and got busted. He went to the military instead of jail. I was screwed. That was 1986. He ended up in the air force as a pilot in 1992. I ended up at a chevy dealer:biggrin: The last time I talked to him he was flying for a private law firm.
A very good family friend has a daughter that wanted to go into the airforce with her boyfriend.He ended up passing away in a car crash in Ohio about a month ago. I told her to still go for him and I think she is going to go. She is 20. I say let her do it. Ended up being a great life for my friend

 

[charlief1]

I didn't see this when it was first posted David, but I will say this. Right out of school she will not get a lot of chances to do much more than join as enlisted. If she wants to take the chance she can join up and get a few years under her belt first. At that point decide if she wants to stay in or not. If not then go to college with the GI bill. After that she might be able to go back with some education and maybe ROTC experience. They offered me a chance at joining the college ROTC and being in the reserves. This give you second LT pay and the duties of a sargents duty. Don't remember what it's called though. My parents talked me out of it and regret it to this day. I did join as an E3 when I finally got around to it though.:biggrin: Just wish I didn't get hurt and screwed up my knees.

 

[Jordan_J]

Okay, as with several others in this thread I am prior enlisted and was in the AF myself. I am going to try to keep this simple and I can elaborate more later if requested.

I had a miserable experience in the military. I am proud to have served my country but if I could do it over knowing what I do now I probably would have gone to college. I hated school by the time high school was over, I tried one semester of college and quickly dropped out to pursue a military career hoping that it would stick and I could retire doing that. I wanted to travel but hardly traveled. I loved my job (avionics on the B-1 bomber) but hated the military BS that came with it. The regular 12 hour shifts that turned into 14 hour shifts (not every job had to do this but some do, pilots when deployed fly like 18 hours at a time), constant training and retraining on everything related and indirectly related to your job, three shifts and they always changed which shift we worked so your sleep schedule would never be right, stupid supervisors who somehow got promoted because they've been in forever yet know nothing about the job they do, the fact that lazy and dumb people will stand out at work quite a lot when there are very few people there to do it all, and I could go on and on.

Recruiters don't lie, but they will omit ALL of the facts. They will only tell you the things you might want to hear or that make it sound the best. I helped my recruiter out for a few weeks after I graduated tech school so I know their tricks of the trade.

In order for her to be a pilot she must first be an officer. In order for her to be an officer she must possess a bachelor's degree and it would probably help if it was something related to aircraft such as aerospace engineering. If she is selected to be a pilot there is no guarantee she will fly fighters. It's just as likely that she will get stuck on a helicopter, cargo plane, passenger jet, or fighter. The pilots who are the worst will likely fly something that doesn't cost as much money in case of a crash.

The odds of even getting to be a pilot are slim from what I heard. The Air Force when I got out was trying to do away with anyone they could. They were taking overall numbers down and requiring people to learn to do the jobs of others so that they could shave off the personnel they didn't "need" to have. I'm sure right now it would be harder to get in the AF as anything than it was 10 years ago. Especially with this economy and everyone trying to join the military so they have a stable job for a few years.

Really it's all luck of the draw. I got the job I wanted but I was stationed somewhere boring and was on a jet that broke a lot for everyone. They would put us on 12 hour shifts because one shop with not enough people would be so broke they couldn't keep up but everyone had to suffer because we are a "team". But I know a friend doing practically the same job going places all over the world every few months while I was stuck in Texas almost the whole time (nothing against Texas, I love the state, but I wanted to see the world not Texas), some jobs don't do any hardly work or work 12 hour shifts while others are always working 12 hour shifts and miserable. You may or may not travel a lot. You may or may not get stationed somewhere "exciting". You may or may not like your experience overall. Pilots typically signed longer contracts, several I talked to signed 10 year contracts since it takes so long for them to be trained on their job. They wanted to keep them around. One pilot hated the job so much he was getting out, they threw him a 100k sign on bonus and he said he doesn't care and that he hates the job so much that he is getting out and going on with his civilian life.

If you want to know anything else just ask. I however was enlisted and not officer but since I worked in aircraft I regularly talked to pilots and dealt with them.

 

[TURBOPOWERED68]

thanks guys for all your info and advice
She is still on the "i want to go to the Air Force" but now she has that i don't want to do all that studying" look on her face??

she lives in a sh1t hole in Philly so at this point if she doesn't want to go to school, or come live with me in L.I i think i would drive her my self to the nearest recruiting station for any of the Armed Forces. It sure beats having her sit around doing nothing or ending up in BS job after BS job.

my offer to her-
Come live with me go to School get a BS part time job and i'll get you car and cover your big expenses and your work money is your play money.

IF no school go sign up i'll drive you there.
the worst part about all this is that she is a good kid not a problem confrontational or disrespectful kid that you would want to get rid off.
What else can i do??

 

[WH1_T-Type]

If she decides to enlist have her look at ALL branches, not just the AF. I'm USN and it isn't a bad gig...once you get through the first few years of crap...heck...she could even go submarines now! Not kidding...better pay, better work environment, more common sense employed by the average enlisted member...and then there are other options in the USA and USMC....sounds like pilot is out of the question for now if she really doesn't want to do college.

 

[turbo nasty]

Being a AF vet I can say that there are some programs that you can go through as an enlisted person to become an officer.
All of which require college.

So bottom line if she hates school and wants to be a fighter pilot then it aint gonna happen.

Even as enlisted she is going to have to go through tech school and some of which are very long and difficult.

Contact Silver Fox he was a E9/Cheif Master Sergeant that recently retired that has great insight to internal workings/career guidance in the AF. His name is Rob and is a great stand up individual.