HELP! Headers Glowing During Cam Break In

[Terbro]

So I put on GN-1 heads and an ATR 214/208 cam to a low miles (6K) motor and installed it. During the cam break-in, the headers started glowing red hot after a couple minutes!

It's been suggested that this could be because the cam sensor wasn't set properly. I used the cam sensor setting tool and followed the instructions carefully. Everything seemed to go, and check out according to the instructions...with the exception that I the cam sensor leads are in the 3 o'clock position vs. the "typical" 4 o'clock position shown on the diagram on the cam sensor setting instructions.

I also got MAL code 42 right away on my scanmaster (along with the engine check light).

So I ran it for 10 minutes at ~2,700 rpms until the temp. reached 205 degrees...and then I shut 'er down.

So...what's the problem and solution? The only other thing I thought is that maybe I was running super-ultra lean, but my fuel pressure was solid at 42 psi.

TIA,
Terry

 

[Turbojorge]

The headers were glowing on my car too during break in. From what I've heard, that normal. I wouldn't worry too much about that.

I would however keep an eye on the temp. Maybe sort of mist the radiator a bit with some water every 2 minutes or so just to keep it down. I remember my temp. never got over 190 during the break in.

As for code 42, I do not know. Exhaust leak maybe?
HTH.
Merry Christmas

 

[qwknuf6]

Glowing red headers during cam break in is NORMAL

 

[Terbro]

I don't like it...what I failed to mention is that
they were glowing red after 2.0 minutes!!!

I had my buddy stand guard to check for problems, and it was one of the first things he mentioned. I can understand that maybe they'd start to glow after 15 minutes...but after we put shims in the TB shaft to hold the rpms steady (so I could leave the gas peddle), they were so hot they were starting to have surrounding stuff smoke...and the entire exhaust to the tail pipe was smoking (from the outside surface) from the heat by 5 minutes...I'd really like to get this confirmed before I continue with the cam break-in.

I'm thinking that with the MAL code 42, that I've got a big problem with the EST circuit...which I know little about.

Terry

 

[turbotwister]

2700?

2700 rpm's is a little high also.what your doing at that point is running the engine at very little load and the fuel mixture is lean therefore the exhaust temperture rises causing this.you dont need to run it at 2700 rpm's .something around 2000 rpm's is plenty.ive NEVER broke in a cam that hi. and ive NEVER wiped out a cam either.
nick,


p.s if you would like to compensate for this low load lean situation for break in.crank up the fuel pressure to 50 or so to compensate a bit(little trick of the trade)

 

[Terbro]

Solved!!!

'Twas me. I went over and over all my connections...'cept I missed one. The MAL code 42 tipped me off. I neglected to connect the Translater + connection to the ign. module...problem fixed. I continued to break in the motor...no hint of glowing headers. I must have been running ultra lean. I knew something wasn't right...even though several people said they've had that happen. I'm telling you they were red hot after 1 minute of running! And before the temp hit 180 at 5 minutes and 205 at 10 (when I shut it down). Afterwards, it stayed steady at 160-165 as it should.

BTW, re: the 2,700 rpm break-in. I followed the break-in procedure posted on gnttype.org. He recommends 2500-3000 for 20 minutes. With other input, I decided to run the part B of the break-in at ~ 2500 for 15 minutes, then about 2000 for another 10.

I'm going for a ride now...excuse me. ;/

Terry

 

[Chuck Leeper]

Hot hedderz?

I think the code 42, EST, meant that there was no spark advance. Running at insufficient advance will cause high EGTS.

 

[Terbro]

Well whatever it was...was definately fixed by making that connection between the ign. mod. and the T+. It went from glowing in 60 seconds to not glowing at all for the remainder of the break in. And it stayed totally cool (~160º) as well.

It's running good. Just went for a 60 mile ride...stayed cool, no leaks. There is some valve train noise. I'm not sure how much can be attibuted to the cam, roller rockers, and GN-1 heads. I babied it the whole time...max boost for just a moment at one point...maybe 8 psi. But it feels responsive, and...smooth.

I do have to resolve a grounding or ? issue. At first the alternator won't charge. But the trend seems to be that after a few minutes, it kicks in and starts charging (changed alts., it's not the alt.). I'm also noticing that the Scanmaster is wigging a bit...some of the readings toggle from normal to way off, with perfect alternation from frame to frame. Example: 0.0 degrees knock, to 22.5...always the same. Other readings stay normal between frames. I also have (or had; haven't reset the ECM) a MAL code 45.

But all in all, I'm pleased...it's running, and seems to be running well. The oil is crystal clear after the run. Lots of power steering pump noise, though it's got fluid.

What's the tell tale indicator of a wiped cam? Metal in the oil? Or just valve train noise/poor performance. I'll clean the oil catch pan tomorrow when I change it and look for debris.

Merry Christmas!

Terry

 

[overboostedZ-28]

grounds

check the grounds in the back of the head.i had the same problem after changing head gaskets.good luck.

 

[TURBO 6]

I agree on the grounds. Make sure they are tight.

 

[Terbro]

I know that many have now said they've had glowing headers, that still trips me out. In my case it was far from "normal"...because it was soley a result of the EST circuit problem (due to my failure to reconnect the T+ wire to the ign. mod.).

I was very careful to connect the...three, I believe ground wires to the passenger side head. And there is also another braided flat ground connection going from the engine bay to the other head. But it's got to be something...I'll go over everything again. Scanmaster readings ALL looked great with my last cruise tonight, including the volts (steady at ~13.5), however I did notice the volts dash light was ever so dimly lit (only noticable at night).

Terry

 

[S1NISTER 87GN]

my driver side header also glowed during break-in, and its coated with jet hot! on my rebuild Merkel says to rev from 1800-to 2400 rpm for a half hour. my temps never got to warm on the car. i third the notion of checking your grounds on the back of the heads, especially the passenger head.make sure where the wires crimp on to the factory ring terminals, they are not corroded or oxidized to the point where there is to much resistance. mine were like that, so i re-did all of them to be safe.

 

[TurboDave]

Re: Solved!!!

Originally posted by Terbro
'Twas me. I went over and over all my connections...'cept I missed one. The MAL code 42 tipped me off. I neglected to connect the Translater + connection to the ign. module...problem fixed. I continued to break in the motor...no hint of glowing headers. I must have been running ultra lean. I knew something wasn't right...even though several people said they've had that happen. I'm telling you they were red hot after 1 minute of running! And before the temp hit 180 at 5 minutes and 205 at 10 (when I shut it down). Afterwards, it stayed steady at 160-165 as it should.

BTW, re: the 2,700 rpm break-in. I followed the break-in procedure posted on gnttype.org. He recommends 2500-3000 for 20 minutes. With other input, I decided to run the part B of the break-in at ~ 2500 for 15 minutes, then about 2000 for another 10.

I'm going for a ride now...excuse me. ;/

Terry

Ya better hope the break in took on the first try, because trying to run it in two stages like that didn't accomplish a thing (well maybe faster wear). If the break in didn't take, you'll see it in a flat cam before too long.

One of the most important rules that must be adhered to when getting ready to break in a cam.
You MUST be absolutely certain that everything was assembled properly, and that the engine is going to fire and run CORRECTLY as soon as you're ready to start the break in.
It litterally takes me hours just hovering over the engine bay, quadruple checking every single detail to ensure the engine will start immediately, and then run correctly!! THIS IS A MUST, or the cam breakin will not go correctly, and thus, not be accomplished. Once the engine is fired and up on revs, if it has to be shut down for ANY reason, the cam break in isn't going to happen.
Results: flat cam down the road.

Everything in the fuel system must be perfect, everything in the electrical department must be ready, everything in the ingnition system must be set properly (cam sensor, crank sensor). ALL wiring properly hooked up, etc.

You must leave NOTHING to chance. Also, have someone at the front of the car to spray water through the radiator when the temps approach 190+ (THEY WILL YOU KNOW). This makes the job a littel messy, but MUST be done.

This isn't a flame directed at you, but rather a "advice column" for everybody in our community that wants to do their own engine assembly that includes a new cam.

Rule number two. If the cam break in procedure doesn't go according to plan, the cam will go flat in short order (cam break in's cant be done in stages, it's all or nothing).

Rule number three. If rule number two is broken, the cam install/break in must be re done. That means pulling the cam to get it re-coated with break in lube, and I don't think you can get that done without pulling it, which also means the intake's going to have to come off again, along with that will come another cam sensor reset Frought with more pitfalls.

 

[Terbro]

TurboDave - I knew all that...I would literally lie awake in bed going over it all in my head...whether I had hooked everything up. Obviously, I still missed that one connection...maily because it was totally hidden out of sight.

At any rate, the last thing I wanted to do was abort the break in. I did so only when I knew I had to. So during the second attempt, I pretty much started over...20 minutes at ~2500 rpms, 10 minutes at 2000 and then idled for a few. Didn't pull the cam to relube...so we'll see.

I'm changing the oil this morning. I'll rip open the oil filter and check for metal.

Terry

 

[Terbro]

Update

All considered, I think I got lucky. Somehow, everything looks great, so far. I pulled the oil filter this morning and cut it open. I only found a few trace amounts of metal (<0.1 mm)...and this was only after I had been searching through the filter element for 10 minutes! If there were any less, there would be none. IOW, there was no significant sign of a wiped cam. And one thing I know for sure, it's got A LOT of power!!! I haven't floored it yet, but for a few moments at 60-70% throttle (only after cruising it for 100 miles), it pulls more than my old motor WOT.

I'm curious to know how often cams wipe with time, though. Is there a chance that it could wipe after like 1,000-5,000 miles? There is definately some valve train noise, though apparently that's not too uncommon.

Everything else looks great though...all Scanmaster readings look perfect.

One point I want to make is this: Be careful about giving the advice to not worry about glowing headers. In my case, it was a strong indicator that there was something seriously wrong, and I'm convinced I would have destroyed my motor or at least my heads had I not aborted when I did. The fact that they glowed so brightly so soon (at one min. into the break-in) was the big red flag. While I don't doubt that glowing headers during break-in can happen...not like this, baby. Exhaust temps. must have been in the thousands...it's a miracle I didn't warp my heads. I think the only thing that saved them was my 3 row HE radiator and Spal fans. Remember, the coolant temp went from 45º to 205º in 10 minutes...it would have never made the whole break-in.

Yours,
Terry