Got pulled over today....

[BuckeyeTroop]

More officers are shot while approaching the car on the initial contact or on the second approach than at any other time. I feel very comfortable having someone exit their car and observing them and interacting with them outside the car or in my front seat. The "kill zone" is at the window, not sitting next to me in my car where i'm watching everything. Every stop is different and police work requires a "feeling" more than anything. The obvious worst place to put someone who hasn't been "searched" is in the back seat. That is a death wish.

 

[datant69]

all cops are different

as a teen in the late 80's i had ALOT of interaction with them, always showed them respect and usually got it back. had one gung ho type who pulled his pistol and had it on me while he aproached my car. i didn't notice until he yelled don't move. guess maybe my car was identical to one they were looking for with some bad guys in it. been in both the front and back seat a few times. went downtown over some tickets and some leafy green substance back when i was alot younger. quit all the BS and now adays i get pulled over every blue moon and even now i still hand them my CHL and my DL so they know even though in my state you don't have to show the CHL. i would never ever use my gun on a peace officer regardless of the situation, well it would have to be he's gone off the deep end. regardless i've always respected the badge and will continue to. part of it, those guys have it tough enough. even if i have to take a ride downtown i'll always be respectful. just part of it, no need to get into anything stupid for something that will only add charges and costs more later. just my 02.

 

[Brer Rabbit]

To each his own then i guess...

One thing for sure is U won'tmake it to retirement if U practice the "here have a seat next to me in my car" working in Chicago. I guess I need to move to Pleasentville. Be safe guys.

 

[BuckeyeTroop]

Never assume what someone else might deal with on a daily basis.

 

[supercrackerbox]

I've had that happen several times. I was of course searched before entering the car. The search starts with him asking if I'm carrying any weapons, which I always have a small pocket knife on me, which I will present to him. He'll hold it for the time and let me in the front seat. Basically if the officer does not view me as a threat, there's no reason for a cuff and stuff. But this is small town Nebraska, nothing like Chicago.

 

[QuickBuick87]

That is a excellent subject to discuss... I have seen cops act both ways about this one... Since I have recieved my CC permit I always tell them I have the weapon, some look like I am nuts for telling Before I had that I didn't say chit:biggrin:

Here in CT I don't think you have to 'tell' the officer or trooper you have a weapon unless he or she asks. Since I have my CC permit, i've been carrying more and more lately and feel it's just a matter of time before i'm stopped for something(especially in the GN). Been wondering too if I should tell the officer or trooper I am carrying. Hmmm, maybe Brett might know more on this subject. Your right SGRIM, excellent subject to discuss..........

Ken

 

[GNBRETT]

More officers are shot while approaching the car on the initial contact or on the second approach than at any other time. I feel very comfortable having someone exit their car and observing them and interacting with them outside the car or in my front seat. The "kill zone" is at the window, not sitting next to me in my car where i'm watching everything. Every stop is different and police work requires a "feeling" more than anything. The obvious worst place to put someone who hasn't been "searched" is in the back seat. That is a death wish.

Cops are shot while approaching the DRIVERS side, NOT the passenger side. That is why I NEVER approach the drivers side under any conditions.

YOU control the stop, not the operator of the car you just stopped. If where you stopped the car is not condusive to approaching the passenger side get on ur PA and instruct them to move their vehicle to a location where you CAN approach the passeneger side. It's that simple.

90% of the population is RIGHT handed. There is no kill zone when you approach the passenger side. You are in control and you can watch their movement when approaching there. And if its at night they will no idea that you are even there when approaching the passenger side. You cannot approach the drivers side at night without casting a shaddow. I dont care how close to walk against the car you WILL be seen by either the side view or rear view mirror.

For someone to shoot you with their right hand while approaching the passenger side you would see their ELBOW cross the plain in ur direction. There is no other way it can happen unless they are left handed which is extremely rare and if it's at night they are expecting you to approach the drivers side anyway.

We have done many simunition exercizes at my job where someone approaches the drivers side vs. passeneger side. The cop is shot EVERY time with simunition bullets (And they fuken hurt to!) when approaching the drivers side. The operator doesnt even have to look, just place ur hand outside the car and start pulling the trigger.

The cop is NEVER hit during these exercises while approaching the passenger side. Never once!

You have COVER and CONCEALMENT on the passenger side. You have NEITHER on the drivers side.

Not to mention ur first reaction when someone pulls a gun on you is NOT to draw ur weapon. It is get out of harms way and distance urself from the threat. You will BACK up.

I'll take my chances with a bullet then a car clipping while backing up. If you think ur gonna back up against the side of the car ur not. We have tried it countless times while doing exercises and you WILL back up into the travel portion of the highway EVERY time EVEN when you know the driver is gonna shoot at you during the exercise.

Show me a video of a cop being killed while approaching the passenger side and keeping all occupants in the vehicle. I can show you a dozen cops being shot while approaching the drivers side and probably just as many when taking the operator or passengers out of the car.

Texas is notorious for Troopers being shot while conducting a motor vehicle stop like that while allowing someone to exit their vehicle.

That would never in a million years happen around here and if you exited your car and approached a cop here you would likely be shot dead.

Cops approach the drivers side because that's the way they were taught in the academy and thats the way you see 99% of the cops approach on TV and in real life. It's really a poor way of conducting urself on a MV stop.

 

[BuckeyeTroop]

I'm well aware of right side approaches and I can guarantee you after almost 20 yrs.................I control my stops from start to finish.

 

[VETKILR]

I feel very at ease like Greg said aka buckeyetrooper about pulling people out of the car. I dislike tinted windows and will stay back till the person rolls down all their windows but i cant fault them b/c all my cars have limo tint on them. With weapons permits it automatically tells me in the computer if the person has a ccw and its standard for us to take the weapon clear it and run it. The driver will stand in front of the car get checked for additional weapons and then i usually place the gun in the trunk and magazines in the front. I have only had a few people complain but after i explain my story they understand. I would never have someone sit in the front as there is no room with my paperwork, ar-15, back up guns and my lunch box. I would never place someone in the front seat, they will either be in front of my car, in back seat in handcuffs or sitting on the curb and ALWAYS will have been checked for weapons! I go home every night no bones about it!

Ironically I get harrassed more when I go back to Ohio than i do in Vegas. In Ohio when I first had the GN i did a burnout onto a main road in Lyndhurst, east side of Cleveland with my buddy, and i had 6 cop cars on that stop. They thought i was DUI or the car was stolen. But driving pops turbo cars always gets looks from the cops that just say "pull me over" and they just stay behind me waiting for me to mess up to try and pull me over.

Its a shame we lose so many officers to either bad tactics or driving which is what we do more than anything as well as unhealthy living conditions i.e. overweight, alcoholism, suicide, divorce, etc. I lost 4 brother officers in my dept of 4k cops (5th or 6th largest in the nation/Las Vegas Metro) and I never want to go to a police funeral ever again!

 

[GNBRETT]

Here in CT I don't think you have to 'tell' the officer or trooper you have a weapon unless he or she asks. Since I have my CC permit, i've been carrying more and more lately and feel it's just a matter of time before i'm stopped for something(especially in the GN). Been wondering too if I should tell the officer or trooper I am carrying. Hmmm, maybe Brett might know more on this subject. Your right SGRIM, excellent subject to discuss..........

Ken

No, ur not required to tell the cop ur carrying. I would strongly advise against telling him you are armed.

If they ask then by all means tell them you are armed and show ur permit of course. DO NOT reach for ur weapon. Let HIM reach for it and place ur hands where they can seen.

The problem is once a cop knows that you are armed he is gonna secure that weapon till the stop is over. Which means dropping the magazine and clearing the chamber. Now the cops has to worry about UR gun in his car as well as his own and he knows he has to return it to you.

When the cop returns to ur car to give you the weapon he will give you the gun and magazine seperate since he doesnt want you shooting him now when pissed off you got a ticket.

The law only requires you to have ur permit on you if carrying a weapon. No where does it state you are required to advise the cop you are carrying. If you have no plan on shooting the cop with ur gun then DO NOT advise him you have a gun.

It will only make him nervous and if it was in Bpt, HFD, WTBRY, etc... or any other violent place in the country there will be 10 cop cars there in under a minute making life for you very uncomfortable and will likely result in the cop taking you out and going thru ur car.

Would that be legal? Depends on the circumstances. Usually not but in the cities or areas where gun violence is more common the chance is the cop is going thru ur car whether you like it or not and you can file a complaint later if you feel ur rights were violated.

It's just a poor idea for the law abiding citizen. The system is not perfect but when a passenger or operator is stopped and has a gun (legal or not) that will change the dynamics of the stop completely and make you wish you just kept ur mouth shut and went on with ur business after the stop is over. HTH

 

[BuckeyeTroop]

Hey Tony. You are right, going home every night is the bottom line. I regularly review the videos of the Troops on my shift, and if I see something unsafe, its addressed. I don't care if its a brand new Troop or a 30 yr vet.

 

[GNBRETT]

I'm well aware of right side approaches and I can guarantee you after almost 20 yrs.................I control my stops from start to finish.

Then what KILL zone are you referring to? It's not the passenger side. The KILL zone is on the drivers side where you have no COVER or CONCEALMENT.

 

[$1987 GN$]

No, ur not required to tell the cop ur carrying. I would strongly advise against telling him you are armed.

If they ask then by all means tell them you are armed and show ur permit of course. DO NOT reach for ur weapon. Let HIM reach for it and place ur hands where they can seen.

The problem is once a cop knows that you are armed he is gonna secure that weapon till the stop is over. Which means dropping the magazine and clearing the chamber. Now the cops has to worry about UR gun in his car as well as his own and he knows he has to return it to you.

When the cop returns to ur car to give you the weapon he will give you the gun and magazine seperate since he doesnt want you shooting him now when pissed off you got a ticket.

The law only requires you to have ur permit on you if carrying a weapon. No where does it state you are required to advise the cop you are carrying. If you have no plan on shooting the cop with ur gun then DO NOT advise him you have a gun.

It will only make him nervous and if it was in Bpt, HFD, WTBRY, etc... or any other violent place in the country there will be 10 cop cars there in under a minute making life for you very uncomfortable and will likely result in the cop taking you out and going thru ur car.

Would that be legal? Depends on the circumstances. Usually not but in the cities or areas where gun violence is more common the chance is the cop is going thru ur car whether you like it or not and you can file a complaint later if you feel ur rights were violated.

It's just a poor idea for the law abiding citizen. The system is not perfect but when a passenger or operator is stopped and has a gun (legal or not) that will change the dynamics of the stop completely and make you wish you just kept ur mouth shut and went on with ur business after the stop is over. HTH

This is why some people have a hate on for some police.

When you are honest you get treated wrong.

I am glad I do not live where you do; sounds like there are more criminals there than anywhere.

You seem quite cynical.

Please do not take this as condescending as it is not meant that way.

I will say a very interesting and educational read.

I am not an officer of the law.

Later AJ

 

[VETKILR]

Yeah cops arent perfect. My area is mostly city with I-95 and I-15 as well running south and to the west so i have to alter my traffic stops on the highway to passenger side approach and pull the nose of my car out farther to avoid getting hit by all the speeders we have on our highways (believe me we were voted #1 deadliest highway from i-15 corridor from cali to vegas and i see it with all the traffic accidents and fatalities we have especially when it rains! Grrr!!). But i have started to do the passenger approach more often; with the wall of light since i work 3p to 1am its very advantageous for us. Brett is right the kill zone is that area around the drivers window and people are always finger fu*($&# around for paperwork and never listen. Most people you ask them where you going where are you from they can barely answer one question and completely lose their train of thought and forget what they were originally doing. Thats why its good to talk fast, easily confusing towards citizens!

Unfortunately this job as much as i love it is becoming major liability and the days of hard handed cops are done, they will take your badge in a new york minute. we had a problem with dui on the force and they are firing a ton of cops for that plus off duty bar incidents, like fights or pointing firearms at people b/c they get cut off and its a pissing match. Honestly i tell people i work for my stepfathers car dealerships back in Ohio and do internet trading. In vegas everyone wants a favor, cops are given the raw deal a lot of times and they will dime you out in a second. its a great department and i love the job the adrenaline thrill, but pretty soon i think we will have cameras in side the car, internal affairs riding shotgun, and an ACLU attorney in the backseat. Its still wild west out here but it makes you look at the average citizen like everyone lies and that everyone is an ass*$%( Hard not to be jaded in this line of work but i have good friends and family and great hobbies to keep me out of trouble so far at least!

 

[Brad Conley]

As far as the weapon thing goes I would never suggest telling a cop that you are armed unless he asked. Your not required to tell him that you are armed and if you have no intention of using that weapon on him then its better off left that way.

If a CHL (Concealed Handgun License) holder in Ohio would do this, they would be committing a felony. Nevermind that the computer/dispatcher screams that the titleholder of the car has a CHL in bright red letters, if we that carry concealed fail to notify promptly, it's a felony. Right now there's a case working it's way through the courts that the CHL holder notified after less than 45 seconds and was promptly arrested for failure to notify in a "timely" manner. Stupid law that accomplishes nothing except get a law abiding citizen in deep poo...

 

[BuckeyeTroop]

If a CHL (Concealed Handgun License) holder in Ohio would do this, they would be committing a felony. Nevermind that the computer/dispatcher screams that the titleholder of the car has a CHL in bright red letters, if we that carry concealed fail to notify promptly, it's a felony. Right now there's a case working it's way through the courts that the CHL holder notified after less than 45 seconds and was promptly arrested for failure to notify in a "timely" manner. Stupid law that accomplishes nothing except get a law abiding citizen in deep poo...

Thats correct. I've been pretty lenient in the times where the holder didn't tell me. Usually just out of nervousness and then they become very apologetic. But as with anything, the wrong attitude can change things quickly.

 

[GNBRETT]

If a CHL (Concealed Handgun License) holder in Ohio would do this, they would be committing a felony. Nevermind that the computer/dispatcher screams that the titleholder of the car has a CHL in bright red letters, if we that carry concealed fail to notify promptly, it's a felony. Right now there's a case working it's way through the courts that the CHL holder notified after less than 45 seconds and was promptly arrested for failure to notify in a "timely" manner. Stupid law that accomplishes nothing except get a law abiding citizen in deep poo...

That's interesting. Laws are different everywhere I guess but that is quite unusual. Maybe there are some other states that have similar laws but im not familiar with other states laws in that reguard.

That's an example of the legislators over stepping their authority to impliment laws to help the police but in reality it doesnt do anything but inconvience the law abiding citizen.

In order to have that permit you must be free of Felony or Misd. DV convictions in most states so the people with the permits are the ones less likely to use them on the police.

It's ur 2nd ammendment right to carry and if your minding ur own buisness then you should not be required to notify the police that you are armed on a routine MV stop. If it was a criminal investigation I could see the point of it.

I wonder if the criminal who ILLEGALLY carries a weapon would be charged accordingly for failure to notify the police he too has a weapon. Stupid law I agree.

A cop should assume that EVERYONE is armed and approach the car accordingly.

The problem with a statute like that is if the dispatcher or cop does not see that the operator has a pistol permit in bright red letters on the computer then he/she may assume the operator does not have a gun. Not a good assumption to make but I can see it happening tho with cops who become complacent over time.

 

[GNBRETT]

This is why some people have a hate on for some police.

When you are honest you get treated wrong.

I am glad I do not live where you do; sounds like there are more criminals there than anywhere.

You seem quite cynical.

Please do not take this as condescending as it is not meant that way.

I will say a very interesting and educational read.

I am not an officer of the law.

Later AJ

No offense taken. I was just being candid as to what would ACTUALLY happen in an environment condusive to crime in the real world.

I'm not saying that would happen everywhere but it's just what I have witnessed throughout my career where I work when guns are involved.

Yea, im a little cynical. I agree. I guess I would rather be judged by 12 then carried by 6. But that's just me.

It's a fine line to walk sometimes when officer safety is in question. Fair? No, not always. And im not saying that I personally would do that but it's pretty common in an urban environment.

Poverty is an incubator for crime anywhere I guess and when the word GUN is heard in those environments cops get a little uneasy and can overstep their authority at times.

 

[Audie1]

No offense taken. I was just being candid as to what would ACTUALLY happen in an environment condusive to crime in the real world.

I'm not saying that would happen everywhere but it's just what I have witnessed throughout my career where I work when guns are involved.

Yea, im a little cynical. I agree. I guess I would rather be judged by 12 then carried by 6. But that's just me.

It's a fine line to walk sometimes when officer safety is in question. Fair? No, not always. And im not saying that I personally would do that but it's pretty common in an urban environment.

Poverty is an incubator for crime anywhere I guess and when the word GUN is heard in those environments cops get a little uneasy and can overstep their authority at times.

Good point.

 

[alwayscode390]

I had a messed up traffic stop a couple years ago.

I was in the fast lane between two cars (one in front and one in rear).

I got pulled over ( because I had the LOUD RED car ... there is NO other reason)

My passenger side window was broken (electric) and the officer came to that side.

I felt I had no other choice but to put both of my arms out the window and start yelling " my window is broken on that side " over and over.

The officer acted pissed off , but at that point I had no way to communicate ... the door was unlocked, I just wanted him to open it. Did I handle this correctly? I was nailed with a $350 ticket in the end , and he kept asking me if I was drunk. I was not drunk, but I feel he didnt quite understand why I took the actions I took.

I was scared that if I didnt respond to him at my door, things would have gotten bad quickly ( like I was not cooperating or doing something suspicious while not rolling down my window ).

I thought of opening my door for him (passenger door) , but honestly if I was a cop and the door opened I would freak out like I was about to be attacked. ---