GM in Quicksand! ...Say Goodbye Soon.

Agent86

"Would You Believe..."
Joined
Jul 29, 2007

GM is sinking quick. :eek: The auto company is standing firm, but they're basically just buying time.

If they don't merge with Ford, then it's almost over. Ford is going down too, but not as bad as GM.

Hold onto your Turbobuick GM parts- they'll be real valuable oneday soon.

Article regarding this...


GENERAL MOTORS tumbled to its lowest in New York trading in 58 years and Ford Motor fell to almost a 26-year low as the US car sales outlook worsened and Standard & Poor's said it might cut their debt deeper into junk.

The market researcher J.D. Power & Associates has estimated that US car and light-truck sales will fall to 13.6 million this year and 13.2 million next year. The total was 16.1 million last year, and it has not been as low as the 2009 projection since 1992.

An S&P analyst, Robert Schulz, said: "These companies certainly wouldn't choose to file bankruptcy but they could find themselves at a point where their liquidity reached the point where they no longer could run their businesses. We think they could be pushed into that."

The pressure on GM and Ford, the largest US car makers, comes after the industry's vehicle sales tumbled 27 per cent last month, the biggest monthly drop since 1991.

The credit crisis has reduced access to loans for potential buyers after sales had already been hurt by petrol prices that rose to a record in July and by the housing slump that sapped consumer confidence. S&P, which rates debt of GM and Ford six steps below investment grade at B-, said both car makers had "adequate liquidity" for this year while facing a "serious challenge" next year. The ratings company put both on credit watch with a negative outlook.

"We were fortunate to go to the markets at the right time," said a Ford spokesman Mark Truby, referring to $US23.4 billion ($35 billion) borrowed in late 2006.

The company is reviewing its liquidity and would give an update when it released third-quarter financial results, he said. Ford has not said when the release, typically later in October, will be.

Renee Rashid-Merem, a GM spokeswoman, said: "We face unprecedented challenges related to uncertainty in the financial markets globally and weakening economic fundamentals in many key markets. But bankruptcy is not an option General Motors is considering."

GM fell 31 per cent to $US4.76 in New York Stock Exchange composite trading, the lowest close since March 30, 1950. Ford slid 22 per cent to $US2.08, the lowest since October 1982. "Buyers are both voluntarily and involuntarily exiting the US new-vehicle market," said Jeff Schuster, executive director of automotive forecasting for J.D. Power.

"The global market in 2009 may experience an outright collapse."

Shares of GM and Ford were on the list for the US Securities and Exchange Commission's three-week ban on short selling, which ended on Wednesday. In a short sale, traders borrow shares, sell them and hope to make a profit by buying back the stock at a lower price and returning it.

Kevin Tynan, an analyst at Argus Research Corp in New York,
 
Or, you could pick up some of their stock real cheap. They have so much they could sell off to raise money if needed. Keep in mind that they are getting hit by all the sky is falling people cashing in their 401Ks and other investments right now.
 
If they saved the banks they are going to save GM... Don't worry, I don't think it will ever happen... Too many trickle down jobs to be lost.

With all the talk off having our own energy independence in 10rs etc... How much since would it make to get energy independent to be Transportation dependent on Japan....
 
I really hope so. I hope the gov't doesn't let GM sink either.

If they saved the banks they are going to save GM... Don't worry, I don't think it will ever happen... Too many trickle down jobs to be lost.

With all the talk off having our own energy independence in 10rs etc... How much since would it make to get energy independent to be Transportation dependent on Japan....
 
Oh No, here comes chicken little again:rolleyes:

Dont make me go pull up all your "scare the public" posts since last July............. everything you post is "OH ****" we are going under but don't worry I am young and have hundreds of thousands of dollars in my savings/401k/retirement....
 
WERD.

If you have money go buy stock. Everything has its ups and downs. Can't go much lower.

Jason
 
I bet you're one of those, "the economy is strong folks" aren't you Johndeer?

Go drink some coolaid with your tubesteak! (I seen you had a steak thread) I bet tubesteak is your favorite kind, isn't it? ;) I think so, because you seem to be behind me lately, obsessing and looking at me? Do you like me? :tongue:

Oh, and another thing- I appreciate your following me around obsessing over my comments. I like your company actually. Ya doushbag - fag :cool:

Oh, and I'm using a lot of the money I'm SAVING, to BUY some stocks, (which are at an all time low) now, and hopefully will swing back in the future, just like the gentleman said in the previous thread.

And looks like GM is considering merging with Chrysler, according to the headlines. Brrrk, Burrrk, Burrrk- time to buy! time to buy! time to buy! BRRRRRRRRK! (that's for you tubesteakjohndeer) lol!
:D

DETROIT - General Motors Corp., Chrysler LLC and Cerberus Capital Management LP have held preliminary talks about a merger or an acquisition of Chrysler by GM, according to a person familiar with the talks.

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Chrysler, which is 80.1 percent owned by Cerberus, already has a joint venture with GM making a hybrid gas-electric powertrain, and has discussed a full merger or acquisition with GM, said the person, who did not want to be identified because the talks have not been made public.

The Wall Street Journal, citing people it described as familiar with the discussions, reported that Cerberus, a private equity firm that also owns 51 percent of GMAC Financial Services, proposed trading Chrysler's automotive operations to GM in exchange for GM's remaining 49 percent stake in GMAC.

The New York Times, also citing people familiar with the talks, reported that the automakers were discussing a merger.

GMAC, primarily an auto lender, also has significant mortgage lending operations that have been hit hard by the crisis in that industry.

The talks have stalled because of the recent turmoil in the financial markets, according to the Journal. Its sources said negotiations could resume if markets stabilize because both GM and Cerberus want to quickly divest the assets under discussion.

The negotiations between 100-year-old GM and 83-year-old Chrysler have began more than a month ago. The Times said its sources pegged the chances of a merger being completed at "50-50."

"Without referencing this specific rumor, as we've often said, GM officials routinely discuss issues of mutual interest with other automakers," GM spokesman Tony Cervone said in an e-mail.

"The company is looking at a number of potential global partnerships as it explores growth opportunities around the world," Chrysler said in an e-mailed statement issued Friday night.

"Beyond those partnerships already announced, however, Chrysler has not formed any new agreements and has no further announcements to make at this time."

A tie-up between the automotive giants would be historic for the industry and solidify GM's position as the global sales leader, which it has been in danger of losing to Toyota Motor Corp. GM and Toyota finished 2007 essentially even in vehicles sold worldwide.

This would not be the first time Detroit's automakers have explored mergers.

GM talked with DaimlerChrysler AG in 2007 about acquiring Chrysler before Cerberus


Oh No, here comes chicken little again:rolleyes:

Dont make me go pull up all your "scare the public" posts since last July............. everything you post is "OH ****" we are going under but don't worry I am young and have hundreds of thousands of dollars in my savings/401k/retirement....
 
I bet you're one of those, "the economy is strong folks" aren't you Johndeer?

Go drink some coolaid with your tubesteak! (I seen you had a steak thread) I bet tubesteak is your favorite kind, isn't it? ;) I think so, because you seem to be behind me lately, obsessing and looking at me? Do you like me? :tongue:

Oh, and another thing- I appreciate your following me around obsessing over my comments. I like your company actually. Ya doushbag - fag :cool:

Oh, and I'm using a lot of the money I'm SAVING, to BUY some stocks, (which are at an all time low) now, and hopefully will swing back in the future, just like the gentleman said in the previous thread.

And looks like GM is considering merging with Chrysler, according to the headlines. Brrrk, Burrrk, Burrrk- time to buy! time to buy! time to buy! BRRRRRRRRK! (that's for you tubesteakjohndeer) lol!
:D

Agent86:
I notice that it wasn't necessary for JohnDeereGN to use any derogatory language or terms with his post and I was wondering why you could not do the same for him, or for the rest of the people that read this thread. There are young adults that do frequent this forum, and it shouldn't be necessary to result to name calling, insults, derogatory terms, and / or foul language tom get your point across. Also, I am not a mod in this section, so I am only asking from one member to another to omit the insults & language issues.
Thanks for the consideration that you extend to all members & guests that read this thread / post.
 
Agent86:
I notice that it wasn't necessary for JohnDeereGN to use any derogatory language or terms with his post and I was wondering why you could not do the same for him, or for the rest of the people that read this thread. There are young adults that do frequent this forum, and it shouldn't be necessary to result to name calling, insults, derogatory terms, and / or foul language tom get your point across. Also, I am not a mod in this section, so I am only asking from one member to another to omit the insults & language issues.
Thanks for the consideration that you extend to all members & guests that read this thread / post.

+1
 
I'll take on the 'economy is strong' comment. Why, YES I think the economy is as strong as you or I want it to be. You seem to be doing ok. Money didn't just disappear into thin air, it is out there. For every loss there is a gain and vice versa.

At this time the markets seem to be making a correction. I'll give you that. These are not new events. It has happened before and it will happen again. Opportunities are being offered and there are investors taking advantage of them. Who do you think is buying the shares that are being sold? For every one sold there is a buyer.

I hope your day goes better this after noon and from here forward.
 
I sure hope GM leaves chrysler alone. Chrysler is doing just fine without GM F'ing up everything and pulling them down also. Then again I'm not worried about it at this point, because this "insider who wishes to remain anonymous" sounds like a bored journalist drumming up a what if story. If GM wanted them they'd have probably got them before cerberus.

GM won't flop over and die though. As stated before, if it came to it the government would bail them out also to prevent massive job loss. They bailed out chrysler back in the day so they'd do the same for GM.
 
My apologies fellas- pardon me.

I'll try and watch my adult content "crude humor" and "suggestive themes" as they say on the Playstation games boxes. I understand. But this guy (Johndeergn) has been stepping on all my posts lately, and I think he's on a mission Chief. :mad:

If I don't get provoked, I'm usually pretty tame. ;) However-

"I hope I wasn't out of line with that crack about a gorilla." :eek:

"Sorry about that Chief" :cool:

Have a nice day

Agent86:
I notice that it wasn't necessary for JohnDeereGN to use any derogatory language or terms with his post and I was wondering why you could not do the same for him, or for the rest of the people that read this thread. There are young adults that do frequent this forum, and it shouldn't be necessary to result to name calling, insults, derogatory terms, and / or foul language tom get your point across. Also, I am not a mod in this section, so I am only asking from one member to another to omit the insults & language issues.
Thanks for the consideration that you extend to all members & guests that read this thread / post.
 
I hope GM just scales down their production and all and get's back to making smaller, more fuel efficient cars, and something which may even not use any conventional oil at all in the future. We need to eventually get off oil, but it's hard to say when and if, that will ever happen- before 10 years at least, as Obama has said....

Out.

I sure hope GM leaves chrysler alone. Chrysler is doing just fine without GM F'ing up everything and pulling them down also. Then again I'm not worried about it at this point, because this "insider who wishes to remain anonymous" sounds like a bored journalist drumming up a what if story. If GM wanted them they'd have probably got them before cerberus.

GM won't flop over and die though. As stated before, if it came to it the government would bail them out also to prevent massive job loss. They bailed out chrysler back in the day so they'd do the same for GM.
 
My apologies fellas- pardon me.

I'll try and watch my adult content "crude humor" and "suggestive themes" as they say on the Playstation games boxes. I understand. But this guy (Johndeergn) has been stepping on all my posts lately, and I think he's on a mission Chief. :mad:

If I don't get provoked, I'm usually pretty tame. ;) However-

"I hope I wasn't out of line with that crack about a gorilla." :eek:

"Sorry about that Chief" :cool:

Have a nice day

I wasn't stepping on your posts at all, just tired of your doom and gloom EVERY post you make.......

and then you say you have hundreds of thousands of dollars with no debt and are taking balogna sandwiches to work to save money. Please:rolleyes:

All I did was put YOUR ACTUAL posts from other threads into "your" posts you made.

Don't you like somebody putting your own salt into your wound.

I have a suggestion, why don't you post something POSITIVE once in awhile?

By the way, if you really feel the need to call me names do to me in person. I cannot stand little internet keyboard warriors.

I will PM you my cell, but doubt you would use it anyway:rolleyes: :biggrin:
 
Drinking Kool-Aid and Moonshine this afternoon?? A little fiesty, heh?

Are you an abusive person? Mentally for sure... at least to me! lol!

Tell you what. Here's something positive for you. Buy stock in at current lows, as I said previously. Can we end it now? Also, I don't want your phone number, because I am happily married. :cool:

Seriously, I won't entertain your bad temper. GM possibly going under and merging is big news. Everything around us lately is negative. Everyone is going through it. I've lost almost 25% of my 401k.


What you do want me to talk about? Steak?? Oh, you already did that one.

But- Oh, here's some good news again. Gas prices are going down which is Grrrrrrrrrrreat! (as Tony the Tiger says)



I wasn't stepping on your posts at all, just tired of your doom and gloom EVERY post you make.......

and then you say you have hundreds of thousands of dollars with no debt and are taking balogna sandwiches to work to save money. Please:rolleyes:

All I did was put YOUR ACTUAL posts from other threads into "your" posts you made.

Don't you like somebody putting your own salt into your wound.

I have a suggestion, why don't you post something POSITIVE once in awhile?

By the way, if you really feel the need to call me names do to me in person. I cannot stand little internet keyboard warriors.

I will PM you my cell, but doubt you would use it anyway:rolleyes: :biggrin:
 
Drinking Kool-Aid and Moonshine this afternoon?? A little fiesty, heh?

Are you an abusive person? Mentally for sure...

Tell you what. Here's something positive for you. Buy stock in at current lows, as I said previously. Can we end it now? Also, I don't want your phone number, because I am happily married. :cool:

Seriously, I won't entertain your bad temper.

He doesn't have a bad temper at all. He is pointing out facts that you don't appear to like. Don't say something on a public board that people might not agree with if you don't want comments (good or bad) back.

Jason
 
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/10/12/business/12auto.html?ref=automobiles

DETROIT — Before General Motors began exploring a possible merger with Chrysler — talks that first came to light on Friday — G.M. proposed a similar deal with its other cross-town rival, the Ford Motor Company, two people with knowledge of the talks said Saturday.
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G.M. executives approached Ford about a possible merger in July, but Ford rejected the idea and ended the discussions last month, these people said.

After Ford decided to remain independent amid an increasingly difficult auto market, G.M. turned its attention to Chrysler. For the last month, it has been in preliminary merger talks with Chrysler’s owner, the private-equity firm Cerberus Capital Management.

A deal is not certain, but people with knowledge of the talks described the chances of it happening as “50-50.”

The behind-the-scenes maneuvering illustrates the mounting pressure on the Big Three Detroit automakers to solve their enormous financial problems and stave off bankruptcy.

A G.M.-Chrysler merger, if it did occur, would have a wide-ranging impact on the American auto industry at one of the most tumultuous points in its history.

Both G.M. and Chrysler are losing market share in the United States and burning through billions of dollars in cash while they scramble to revamp their unprofitable North American operations.

But they may be running out of time. With auto sales at their lowest level in 15 years, both companies face the possibility of bankruptcy before their turnaround efforts take hold.

“These are not normal times,” said David Cole, chairman of the Center for Automotive Research in Ann Arbor, Mich. “The biggest problem is cash and whether these companies will have enough to survive this downturn.”

For G.M., which lost $15.5 billion in the second quarter alone, the strategy for survival appears to center on pursuing a mega-merger.

In July, G.M. approached Ford with a proposal to combine the operations of the two biggest American automakers. The talks involved several meetings between G.M.’s chairman, Rick Wagoner; its president, Frederick Henderson; Ford’s executive chairman, William C. Ford Jr.; and its chief executive, Alan R. Mulally, people with knowledge of the process said.

Ford broke off the talks in September, these people said. Mr. Ford and Mr. Mulally were said to have concluded that their company had a better chance to reorganize on its own than in tandem with another automaker.

A Ford spokesman, Mark Truby, declined Saturday to confirm the discussions with G.M., but he said Ford was determined to remain independent.

“We would not comment on any private business discussions, including discussions with other automakers and suppliers,” Mr. Truby said. “What we can say is that we are convinced our best opportunity is to continue to integrate Ford and leverage our global assets. That remains Ford’s focus.”

Talks between G.M. and Cerberus may take weeks to complete, and they could still be derailed by price issues and the challenges of integrating G.M. and Chrysler.

Cerberus is also talking with other automakers about a potential Chrysler deal, including Nissan Motor of Japan and Renault of France, people with knowledge of the situation said.

G.M. and Cerberus have held numerous meetings involving senior management of both companies but have yet to delve deeply into each other’s financial books and sales projections.

Cerberus appears committed to linking Chrysler to other auto companies, either through joint ventures, alliances or an outright merger or sale.

Chrysler executives have already struck some deals on products and manufacturing plans with competitors, including a deal with Nissan to provide a pickup truck to it in exchange for Nissan building a small car for Chrysler.

A Chrysler spokeswoman, Lori McTavish, declined Saturday to discuss any merger talks with G.M. but reiterated the company’s strategy to grow through partnerships.

“Chrysler, as a matter of policy, does not confirm or disclose the nature of its private business meetings,” Ms. McTavish said. “As we have said, the company is looking at a number of potential global partnerships as it explores growth opportunities around the world. Beyond those partnerships already announced, however, Chrysler has not formed any new agreements and has no further announcements at this time.”

Chrysler has struggled in the United States market since Cerberus acquired an 80.1 percent stake in the company for $7.4 billion last year from its previous owner, the German automaker Daimler.

Chrysler has cut thousands of jobs, slashed production and closed plants to try to balance the impact of a 25 percent drop in United States sales so far this year. But Chrysler has a substantial amount of cash, which probably would be of major interest to G.M.

As a privately held company, Chrysler is not required to disclose its financial results. In August, however, Cerberus said that Chrysler had about $11 billion in cash reserves.

Andrew Ross Sorkin contributed reporting from New York.
 
Hmmm.......what do ya expect, being almost every car on the road seems to be a Honda, Toyota, Subbie, or Hyundai??? NO loyality anymore. You won't see anything but AMERICAN in my driveway!!! :mad:

I own 4 GM's and one Ford just for the record.
 
LMAO, keep dancing around the facts, call me or say what you want keyboard warrior, :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

As much as you reference fags, and not needing my number because you are married.... I think you must be hiding in the closet on that one...

I offered my number to talk to you like a man, and that is all. Keep jumping around the facts and I will start dragging in all your doom and gloom threads and make you look like a real ass hat:cool:

Now go count your hundreds of thousands of dollars and get stocked up on that balogna for a rainy day.

BTW, there are MANY MANY people on the 2 boards I frequent and can vouch this has nothing to do about "my temper" as you say.... just you dodging the facts once again.....

Go get a helmet chicken little I think "your" sky is starting to fall...:p








Drinking Kool-Aid and Moonshine this afternoon?? A little fiesty, heh?

Are you an abusive person? Mentally for sure... at least to me! lol!

Tell you what. Here's something positive for you. Buy stock in at current lows, as I said previously. Can we end it now? Also, I don't want your phone number, because I am happily married. :cool:

Seriously, I won't entertain your bad temper. GM possibly going under and merging is big news. Everything around us lately is negative. Everyone is going through it. I've lost almost 25% of my 401k.


What you do want me to talk about? Steak?? Oh, you already did that one.

But- Oh, here's some good news again. Gas prices are going down which is Grrrrrrrrrrreat! (as Tony the Tiger says)
 
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