Gabby Rojas just went 6.25 @110mph in the 1/8 mile on E85.

[jdpolzin]

Let us know how your tests go, I would like to do 120s on mine but need a modded ECM so I am going to see how these 80s work, kind of sucks you need a modded ecm,FASt, or Big stuff to run 120s

I hear ya! But, if keep your eyes peeled on the For Sale section, modded ECM's do come up for sale quite often. If you think about it, you'll spend $200 on a modded ecm and then can sell you stock ECM for $65 or so. $135 is only a few tanks of gas!

 

[89drivin87]

with the 80lb injectors eric says you can go mid 10s.my friends car with the 80s has gone 10.85 with low boost.i can see an easy 10.50 in his car and injector.

 

[blackmonte]

with the 80lb injectors eric says you can go mid 10s.my friends car with the 80s has gone 10.85 with low boost.i can see an easy 10.50 in his car and injector.

not bad,thats running E85? What are the rest of the combo with his car? :smile:

 

[HighPSI]

I would agree. We just need to see how it reacts. What do you think a single Reds XP hotwired will do?

I guess what I'm trying to figure out is, people on here read something and then state it as if it were the bible. Sometimes they have had no experience with the particular subject. I dont see why stock fuel lines cant feed larger injectors on E85 if it can supply enough race gas to feed the same injector. Consmption is higher with E85 but if a 120lb injector is only at a duty cycle of 60% on C-16, it would have a duty cycle of 75-80% on E85, if not less.

We were using 160# injectors a little over 50% duty cycle runnig 9teens. We turned the boost up two pounds and went to 100% dutycyle and ran an 8.97 The fuel system was all done on that car.

 

[jdpolzin]

We were using 160# injectors a little over 50% duty cycle runnig 9teens. We turned the boost up two pounds and went to 100% dutycyle and ran an 8.97 The fuel system was all done on that car.

Man, thats amazing that it will change that drastically with a 2psi difference! So what is the next step after 160's are maxed out? Up the fuel pressure? Or do you feel it could be a volume issue?

I'm trying to figure out what will be the biggest issue running E85, stock lines, an a single hotwired pump. Will it be a volume issue? Fuel pressure should be no different just becuase it's E85. So can we run a higher FP to help accomodate for a lack in volume, if there was a lack in volume?

I also understand that there is a big difference to a car running 8's as compared to a car like most of us have trying to get into the 10's. So how much of an effect will running stock lines with e85 have?

When we first started getting into E85 on here, most people had it in their minds that we need to run stainless lines, stainless tank, stainless filters, etc. Now, that hhas proven to be incorrect.

 

[bison]

Man, thats amazing that it will change that drastically with a 2psi difference! So what is the next step after 160's are maxed out? Up the fuel pressure? Or do you feel it could be a volume issue?

I'm trying to figure out what will be the biggest issue running E85, stock lines, an a single hotwired pump. Will it be a volume issue? Fuel pressure should be no different just becuase it's E85. So can we run a higher FP to help accomodate for a lack in volume, if there was a lack in volume?

I also understand that there is a big difference to a car running 8's as compared to a car like most of us have trying to get into the 10's. So how much of an effect will running stock lines with e85 have?

When we first started getting into E85 on here, most people had it in their minds that we need to run stainless lines, stainless tank, stainless filters, etc. Now, that hhas proven to be incorrect.

It could have the same effect Cal saw with the 8.90 car. If your on the edge it doesnt take much to push it over the edge. Its better to be safe than sorry. If you increse the pressure you will lower the pumps ability to maintain volume which is exactly what you dont want to do. Id rather have more pump than needed and adequate lines and some kind of safety built in if the pressure rise is not 1:1 under load or the dc goes to 100%. Why ruin an engine testing the limitations of the fuel system?

 

[89drivin87]

whats the debate here.i think gabby just proved that you can go 9s with stock fuel lines.

 

[HighPSI]

I don't think anybody is debating anything. Like I said we went 8's on racegas. Obviously, my customers fuel system wasn't as good as Gabby's. I missed where he went 9's but don't doubt that he did, he has the right parts to run low, low, nines. I calculate that his injectors should be good for 980hp on E-85. That puts him right at the hp limit of his turbo.

 

[89drivin87]

I don't think anybody is debating anything. Like I said we went 8's on racegas. Obviously, my customers fuel system wasn't as good as Gabby's. I missed where he went 9's but don't doubt that he did, he has the right parts to run low, low, nines. I calculate that his injectors should be good for 980hp on E-85. That puts him right at the hp limit of his turbo.

i don't think the same amount of fuel on E-85 wouldn't hit the 9's with his car.

I might be off on that bottom quote, but I think you're saying that he wouldn't run 9's with E-85. I thought that a 6.2x should be good for atleast -Im rounding up here- 9.90s if you had the rest of the track.

 

[HighPSI]

I said MY customer wouldn't hit 9's on E-85, at least not safely. I also said his fuel system wasn't as good as Gabby's with the aftermarket feed line. Sorry for sharing my experience I was hoping our experience (not theory or estimate) could possibly save someone from destroying an engine. We had the benefit of the WBO2 taking the 160# injectors to 100% duty cycle when the fuel system couldn't keep up. Your friend with 80# inj's, or perhaps Gabby may not, so I wanted to warn them.

 

[northerngn]

Cal... I'm all ears!!!
-Dan

 

[bison]

I said MY customer wouldn't hit 9's on E-85, at least not safely. I also said his fuel system wasn't as good as Gabby's with the aftermarket feed line. Sorry for sharing my experience I was hoping our experience (not theory or estimate) could possibly save someone from destroying an engine. We had the benefit of the WBO2 taking the 160# injectors to 100% duty cycle when the fuel system couldn't keep up. Your friend with 80# inj's, or perhaps Gabby may not, so I wanted to warn them.

Yeah. Im sure we will start seeing a lot more of those types of engine failures where the owner said he didnt log any KR but the engine still melted. More so without any wideband correction. At least you have a chance to possibly see that you were hitting 100% on the log vs. having to scratch your head wondering if your fuel system was up to the task.

 

[89drivin87]

i said my customer wouldn't hit 9's on e-85, at least not safely. I also said his fuel system wasn't as good as gabby's with the aftermarket feed line. Sorry for sharing my experience I was hoping our experience (not theory or estimate) could possibly save someone from destroying an engine. We had the benefit of the wbo2 taking the 160# injectors to 100% duty cycle when the fuel system couldn't keep up. Your friend with 80# inj's, or perhaps gabby may not, so i wanted to warn them.

my mistake.i thought you were saying two different things.i thought on one hand you where saying he wouldnt run 9s and on the other that he would.sorry for the confusion.please share your information thats how we all improve.

 

[HighPSI]

It's all good. Keep the updates coming.

 

[jdpolzin]

It could have the same effect Cal saw with the 8.90 car. If your on the edge it doesnt take much to push it over the edge. Its better to be safe than sorry. If you increse the pressure you will lower the pumps ability to maintain volume which is exactly what you dont want to do. Id rather have more pump than needed and adequate lines and some kind of safety built in if the pressure rise is not 1:1 under load or the dc goes to 100%. Why ruin an engine testing the limitations of the fuel system?

I see. I would say my theory is only based on cars that would run high 10's and slower. Obviously my Stage car is a completely different animal. I want to prove that a car can run a high 10 second pass with a sinlge pump and stock lines simply to prove or disprove the fact that everyone automatically assumes you need to spend $2K on your fuel system if you want to run E85. I dont feel that is true at all. Yes, I do agree the real fast cars need more fuel, but what do the slower cars need?

There are so many guys contacting me about E85 with questions about what they need to run E85. I dont want to tell these guys to crank up the boost and dont worry about replacing the lines without some hard proof. The cars we have tested have had no problems with a single pump and stock lines. Also had no problems with a good fuel system either of course! the fuel systems we run on our fast cars costs near $1800, I dont feel thats necessary until your really turning up the wick.

I would think it should be able to be calculated based on the pumps capacity and pressure ratings, size and length of our stock lines, restriction of the filter, fuel pressure needed at the injectors, and the injectors capacity needs at 100% DC. To make a 10.99 pas in a full weight car, what is the average HP we need?

 

[jasjamz]

He has NOT ran in the 9s on E-85 YET...

Give Gabby a chance to run 1320ft before we assume all the stock line, 9 sec, E-85 stuff. Sick car on race gas, hope it all works out well for him!

 

[bison]

I see. I would say my theory is only based on cars that would run high 10's and slower. Obviously my Stage car is a completely different animal. I want to prove that a car can run a high 10 second pass with a sinlge pump and stock lines simply to prove or disprove the fact that everyone automatically assumes you need to spend $2K on your fuel system if you want to run E85. I dont feel that is true at all. Yes, I do agree the real fast cars need more fuel, but what do the slower cars need?

There are so many guys contacting me about E85 with questions about what they need to run E85. I dont want to tell these guys to crank up the boost and dont worry about replacing the lines without some hard proof. The cars we have tested have had no problems with a single pump and stock lines. Also had no problems with a good fuel system either of course! the fuel systems we run on our fast cars costs near $1800, I dont feel thats necessary until your really turning up the wick.

I would think it should be able to be calculated based on the pumps capacity and pressure ratings, size and length of our stock lines, restriction of the filter, fuel pressure needed at the injectors, and the injectors capacity needs at 100% DC. To make a 10.99 pas in a full weight car, what is the average HP we need?

You have to consider that not all cars fuel lines are the same. With gas some guys had problems running low 10's with them and some have gone low 9's reportedly. If anyone is serious about running faster than 10.50 through stock lines with E85 they should have a way to test volumes/pressures at the injectors without having to learn the hard way. About 525hp at 3600lbs to run 10.90's. It will happen like Cal stated. One pass it will be fine then next pass a small increase in boost and its at 100%dc and probably ready to melt. I wouldnt risk it without testing the pressures/volumes at given voltages through the fuel system to see where i get a big drop off. You should start a thread on this so we dont pollute this one anymore.

 

[laz]

Hey Cal you gotta remember some ppl use an egt nsome real fast dataloggers to get there info compared to us slow guys . The way i see it with how much it cost to build a decent v6 i wouldnt put e 85 on anything i race ,its kinda hard to take a fuel thats 105 or so octane and make the same power than c16 which is more like 117 but thats just me .

 

[jasjamz]

I would like Gabby to chime in on his reason for trying E-85. I bet the $140 for 10 gallons of C-16 is one reason. 10 gallons of the corn stuff here would run $bucks. Mid nines for $140...10.0s for $23 Hmmmmm.... :wink:
Now he can drive as much as he wants and still have Bottom ten, high nine power on tap for nothing compared to race gas. Cant say the same for C-16.
How much does he drive the car around Florida Brick?

 

[laz]

Jas anyone can run fast on anything look at the pump gas drags one guy ran 7.70son 7 cylinders . The bottom line is how much is in the motor and how much if you break it, to me 30 lbs of boost is no joke things can go wrong and c16 gives you alot more room for error. If the price of gas is an issue buy a v8 i ran low ten on pump gas and drove my camaro everywhere and that was 5 years ago im sure it run alot faster these days . We got a local viper that made over 1000 rwhp on pump gas with 14 degrees of timing and 15 pounds of boost once it hit the race sceen even at low boost it runs c 16 and we ran up to 28 psi and its still goin .