fwd roller and non roller cam parts in gn motor w/pictures
- Thread starter 87buickracer
- Start date
O.K. so here's another problem I ran into.......the mounting hole I drilled for my forward retainer support punched into the oil galley......not good, but not that bad either. I'll post a few pics tomorrow showing exactly what happened, and how I worked around it..........but needless to say it was a pain in the a$$ getting the oil shavings out of the oil galley. I had to completely dissassemble the entire bottom end and flush it out. Thus the delay in my build progress.
I would suggest drilling and tapping both mounting holes BEFORE you start the build, as you should anyway, of course. I got ahead of myself and used the old "shop-vac + masking tape" trick to catch shavings, went a little too deep and got nailed. Anyway, I'll have some pics tomorrow like I said.
I would suggest drilling and tapping both mounting holes BEFORE you start the build, as you should anyway, of course. I got ahead of myself and used the old "shop-vac + masking tape" trick to catch shavings, went a little too deep and got nailed. Anyway, I'll have some pics tomorrow like I said.
O.K. here we go, for better or worse,
the final assembly. I'll explain each picture in order.
1) The first picture is the engine with the retainer, spacers, dog bones, lifters, cam.....everything ready for pushrods. With FelPro PT9441 head gaskets the distance is exactly 8.400"...WITH NO PRELOAD. Comp Cams suggests a lifter preload of .030" +- .010".........so the total pushrod length required for my setup is exactly 8.430" (ball-end to ball-end.) This length was measured independantly on five different lifters, on both sides of the block......all were within 2/1000th of an inch. Yes, the lifters were positively sitting on base circle. You should be able to use these measurements with any head gasket, just subtract, or add the difference in compressed thickness between the PT9441 and yours........as long as everthing else in your combo is the same as mine. You should measure your own just to be safe though.
2) The second pic is of the 5/16th" tapped holes (using a 5/16th NC18 tap) in the lifter valley. Very important to get these drilled straight up and down, the retainer requires the spacer to be perfectly parallel to work properly. Notice the forward hole drilled right through into the oil galley. I made sure the threads were oil free, and mixed some JB Weld and lightly coated the threads of the hex stud before installing. I figure you almost need to drill into the oil galley to get enough "meat" for the stud to hold really well. If you get nervous here, and don't drill deep enough, the retainer may shift. Ideas?
3) The third is a shot is of the spacer I used (5/16th" version of the same nut we use to make our wastegates adjustable...... there are two cut down to 1.040" long....your height may vary a little) The other is of a hex stud (5/16th" by .75 inches long) that the spacer is screwed onto. This provides the mount for the retainer. The .75" long body bolt holds it on. Use your own imagination here if you don't like my idea.......but it's super strong, and should hold extremely secure. Make sure the hex stud doesn't move when you wind the spacer on....ideally, there should be just as much thread in the block as sticking out.
The hardest part of this build was getting the retainer placement perfect........there is not a lot of room for error here. To make things easy, install the cam, lifters and the dog bones. Put the retainer on the dogbones (make sure the half-circle hole is at the front of the engine.....the retainer only really fits one way) then bend the arms down a bit.......it will require some adjustment to contact the dogbones correctly. What's correctly???.....the little bump at the bottom of each arm must not slip off the dogbone, even when it's bolted down. Try to keep the arm adjustments even.....If you bend one, then bend them all the same amount. When you have it sitting exactly the way you want it, look straight down the retainer mounting holes and mark exactly where to drill the hole. (I used a tiny drop of White-Out paper correction fluid) Make sure you use the correct drill-bit for the 5/16th NC18 tap.....it's not a 5/16th bit.....it's smaller. You'll also notice I rather crudely knocked the corners off the bottom of the spacer a little, this was so it wouldn't hit the lifter bosses, which were quite close. Even so, this mounting method is plenty strong. Like I said, if you don't like it, use your imagination, the are certianly other ways to do it....as shown by 87BuickRacer. The push-rod order goes in tomorrow. The total for this mod should not exceed $430.:smile: If you noticed, I'm not going to use the stock cam button seen in the first picture.....I just wanted to see if you were paying attention. Cheers!:smile:
P.S. Overall this is a pretty easy mod........I'll get back to you and tell you how well, or not, the 980 springs worked.
the final assembly. I'll explain each picture in order. 1) The first picture is the engine with the retainer, spacers, dog bones, lifters, cam.....everything ready for pushrods. With FelPro PT9441 head gaskets the distance is exactly 8.400"...WITH NO PRELOAD. Comp Cams suggests a lifter preload of .030" +- .010".........so the total pushrod length required for my setup is exactly 8.430" (ball-end to ball-end.) This length was measured independantly on five different lifters, on both sides of the block......all were within 2/1000th of an inch. Yes, the lifters were positively sitting on base circle. You should be able to use these measurements with any head gasket, just subtract, or add the difference in compressed thickness between the PT9441 and yours........as long as everthing else in your combo is the same as mine. You should measure your own just to be safe though.
2) The second pic is of the 5/16th" tapped holes (using a 5/16th NC18 tap) in the lifter valley. Very important to get these drilled straight up and down, the retainer requires the spacer to be perfectly parallel to work properly. Notice the forward hole drilled right through into the oil galley. I made sure the threads were oil free, and mixed some JB Weld and lightly coated the threads of the hex stud before installing. I figure you almost need to drill into the oil galley to get enough "meat" for the stud to hold really well. If you get nervous here, and don't drill deep enough, the retainer may shift. Ideas?
3) The third is a shot is of the spacer I used (5/16th" version of the same nut we use to make our wastegates adjustable...... there are two cut down to 1.040" long....your height may vary a little) The other is of a hex stud (5/16th" by .75 inches long) that the spacer is screwed onto. This provides the mount for the retainer. The .75" long body bolt holds it on. Use your own imagination here if you don't like my idea.......but it's super strong, and should hold extremely secure. Make sure the hex stud doesn't move when you wind the spacer on....ideally, there should be just as much thread in the block as sticking out.
The hardest part of this build was getting the retainer placement perfect........there is not a lot of room for error here. To make things easy, install the cam, lifters and the dog bones. Put the retainer on the dogbones (make sure the half-circle hole is at the front of the engine.....the retainer only really fits one way) then bend the arms down a bit.......it will require some adjustment to contact the dogbones correctly. What's correctly???.....the little bump at the bottom of each arm must not slip off the dogbone, even when it's bolted down. Try to keep the arm adjustments even.....If you bend one, then bend them all the same amount. When you have it sitting exactly the way you want it, look straight down the retainer mounting holes and mark exactly where to drill the hole. (I used a tiny drop of White-Out paper correction fluid) Make sure you use the correct drill-bit for the 5/16th NC18 tap.....it's not a 5/16th bit.....it's smaller. You'll also notice I rather crudely knocked the corners off the bottom of the spacer a little, this was so it wouldn't hit the lifter bosses, which were quite close. Even so, this mounting method is plenty strong. Like I said, if you don't like it, use your imagination, the are certianly other ways to do it....as shown by 87BuickRacer. The push-rod order goes in tomorrow.
The total for this mod should not exceed $430.:smile: If you noticed, I'm not going to use the stock cam button seen in the first picture.....I just wanted to see if you were paying attention. Cheers!:smile: P.S. Overall this is a pretty easy mod........I'll get back to you and tell you how well, or not, the 980 springs worked.
Attachments
Ok.........so after all that work, I had an offer to buy on my car I couldn't refuse. The fellow who bought it wants it as is, and has no interest in further engine upgrades that improve performance. I'm offering for sale in the Parts for Sale section all the components to make this roller conversion happen....minus the pushrods. I'll include 12 cleaned and checked roller lifters, the retainer plate (already adjusted), all fasteners, the Comp Cams BV69-258HR10 ductile iron roller camshaft (206/206 .498 lift at .50") and the cam button.........all you need to buy are the pushrods.....Comp Cams #7731-16 (8.425")....about $120 for a set of 16. I'm a little dissappointed at this point,because I was sure excited to see it run..........anyway. $$$$$ too good to turn down.
turbofabricator
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Mar 7, 2004
Not completely accurate. The Olds' DID use an invereted bee-hive looking spring, but they didn't use the ovate wire that Comp uses. (the wire is oval, not round) That is one of the main benifits of the Comp "beehive" springs. (it helps eliminate harmonics, and the need for a dampener) Plus they install them with the small end up (the Olds' I have seen, installed them with the small end down) to help reduce retainer weight. I know..........slicin' hair, here.
87buickracer
Member
- Joined
- Dec 2, 2004
87buickracer
Member
- Joined
- Dec 2, 2004
Heads
My heads are finally done at machine shop with beehive springs.ported and polished to the max.I had originally set the heads up for flat tappet cam,but went to beehives after going with comp billet roller cam.So if anyone need a new set flat tappet springs with retainer and locks w/dampner give me a holla.
the flat tappet springs were set up for 95lbs.Due to the fact that I am running a 72 turbo I had the machineshop set my beehive springs up for about 140lbs on the seat.Once I pick heads up I will be running rjc bullet proof head gaskets and will finally get the push rod length and pictures posted.I'm moving slow due to the fact that I am having 400 tranny built,drive shaft cut/balanced with yoke and getting roll cage for car and some body work done.I want to have everything done before putting engine in the car.I try not to count the money I spend on this car anymore,I just spend it if you know what I mean(lol)..Hopefully in the end I will have some nice time slips to post and start a new project.
My heads are finally done at machine shop with beehive springs.ported and polished to the max.I had originally set the heads up for flat tappet cam,but went to beehives after going with comp billet roller cam.So if anyone need a new set flat tappet springs with retainer and locks w/dampner give me a holla.
the flat tappet springs were set up for 95lbs.Due to the fact that I am running a 72 turbo I had the machineshop set my beehive springs up for about 140lbs on the seat.Once I pick heads up I will be running rjc bullet proof head gaskets and will finally get the push rod length and pictures posted.I'm moving slow due to the fact that I am having 400 tranny built,drive shaft cut/balanced with yoke and getting roll cage for car and some body work done.I want to have everything done before putting engine in the car.I try not to count the money I spend on this car anymore,I just spend it if you know what I mean(lol)..Hopefully in the end I will have some nice time slips to post and start a new project.
FWD Roller Cam
Did anyone ever complete one of these conversions? I was just wondering how it worked out? I have been gathering parts to complete this project on my car but am still missing the spider plate to hold down the dog bones and the push rods.
Should I make a trip to the junk yard to look for the spider or give the project up?
Jeasen
Did anyone ever complete one of these conversions? I was just wondering how it worked out? I have been gathering parts to complete this project on my car but am still missing the spider plate to hold down the dog bones and the push rods.
Should I make a trip to the junk yard to look for the spider or give the project up?
Jeasen
mikestertwo
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Sep 13, 2006
I'm in the middle of the conversion. I have all the parts except for the pushrods. I just haven't had time to get it all together. Too many other distractions at the moment. Probably won't be finished until sometime in July.
"More Boost"
Major Member
- Joined
- Feb 13, 2005
ok, i was all fired up about this type of roller conversion on my motor, but my 84 4.1L has a different lifter valley. now im not so sure. has anyone done one of these before?
"More Boost"
Major Member
- Joined
- Feb 13, 2005
i called buick and the part no's for the spider and the dogbones for this conversion are both unavailable now. so i gues its either junkyard or or find an engine core for parts.....
87buickracer
Member
- Joined
- Dec 2, 2004
fwd roller cam parts
I'm currently building th400 with 36 sprag/drum,alto clutches/kolene steels and intermediate power pack with reverse manual valvebody.Heads will be going on soon and will have pushrod length..only thing left to do on tranny is order valvebody.my job has been keeping my busy and slowed the process of finishing things,but I'm catching up on my days off.
I'm currently building th400 with 36 sprag/drum,alto clutches/kolene steels and intermediate power pack with reverse manual valvebody.Heads will be going on soon and will have pushrod length..only thing left to do on tranny is order valvebody.my job has been keeping my busy and slowed the process of finishing things,but I'm catching up on my days off.
Well, I too have been slowly working on this. Got a spider and lifters from the junkyard. The lifters weight 107 grams each, by the way. Didn't like the way the original mounting holes lined up so well with the oil gallery, especially after one person broke through, so I made new holes closer to the centerline. I made two spacers, 3/4" OD, 5/16" ID, and 1" long, and drilled new holes in the spider for them. Then lined it all up and used a 5/16" transfer punch to mark the block, then drilled and tapped the holes. I'm not great at drilling square to a surface so I used the spacer block as a drill guide and then again as a tap guide and it all came out nice and square. Here are some pictures that I hope are viewable - I'm no expert at resizing, etc, to get them to post . You can see one spacer being used as a tap guide tapping the front hole, the front and rear holes from below with the spider bolted down using 1-1/2" long bolts, and last, the spider bolted down in place.
. You can see one spacer being used as a tap guide tapping the front hole, the front and rear holes from below with the spider bolted down using 1-1/2" long bolts, and last, the spider bolted down in place.Attachments
And one more pic looking through the cam bearings to show that even though the front bolt sticks through about 1/8" further than the rear bolt it still is outside the diameter of the cam bearings by about 1/8" which means it will clear the cam lobes with plenty of room. Even so I'll probably take an 1/8" off just for fun. If I ever make more progress I'll post that, too. Oh, this pic is with the block almost upside down in case anyone was wondering why the bolt was sticking up from the bottom instead of down from the top .
.Attachments
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