Fuel reg psi tracking...

Chuck Leeper

Toxic old bastard
Staff member
Joined
May 28, 2001
Over on the BUllet:
Interesting bit, from Fuelab folks, concerning the pressure rise on boost referenced regulators.
The same principal applies to boosted EFI applications; the regulator needs to allow additional fuel pressure to overcome resistance created by boost pressure. For example, let’s say a boosted application runs 45 psi of fuel pressure to the injector when under no boost. Let’s say the engine is then put under 20 psi of boost pressure. That means the intake manifold, where the fuel injectors are mounted and spray into, is pressurized by 20 psi. This pressure then “pushes back” fuel in the injector/fuel rail by 20 psi. That means the fuel pressure in the fuel rail must be increased by 20 psi to compensate. So, the 20 psi of boost reference to the Pressure Reference Port causes the regulator to increase fuel pressure in the fuel rail/delivered to the injector from 45 psi to 65 psi – thereby compensating for the 20 psi of resistance created by boost pressure.
However, it should be noted various conditions can affect regulated pressure readings. While Bypass (Return) Style or Blocking (Traditional) Style regulators that use diaphragms are exactly 1:1, in some situations when measurements are taken, it appears less than 1:1. For example, some with Bypass Style regulators have measured their fuel pressure and boost pressure for a blown application and found it to be less than 1:1. For many of these users, they are comparing the operating conditions between idle and full throttle. During full throttle operation, much less fuel is returning back to the fuel tank than during idle operation. When the regulator is returning less fuel, the diaphragm is “more closed” and therefore in a slightly different position, such that the amount of squeeze on the diaphragm spring is less. With less force from the spring, the pressure lowers. The amount of pressure change as a result of how much flow difference is going through the valve is known as the Regulation Slope. Regulation Slope represents the amount of pressure difference (PSI) expected per change in flow rate (GPM). For example, say an engine consumes 1 GPM (60 GPH) at full throttle and the regulator has a Regulation Slope of 3 PSI/GPM, then we can expect that the fuel pressure will lower by 3 PSI at full throttle compared to when measured at idle.
 
Interesting. How would you compensate for that? Up the fueling at WOT won't work. Just raising the pressure at the fuel rail would still have the same net effect of not being 1:1 at WOT. I've never seen a regulator spec showing the Regulation Slope. How would that be found?
 
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Modern electronic ECMs will compensate up to the injector limit. Hmmm, wonder if Bob has ever considered the feasibility of reprogramming a boost-capable late model ECM to work with these old Buicks...
 
Run a pressure correcting strategy. Any good system is more than capable of doing this. You should be running a known good regulator also.


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FP correcting in action. Due to pump inadequacy:
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Notice O2 correction remains true and VE values remain true since the correction is a proactive real time vs an O2 correction which is reactive. Even with the pump barely putting out more than base pressure at 20psi the ecu was able to fuel the engine and it never went dangerously lean at any point. If you weren't logging fp corr% or inj D.C. Or fuel pressure here you might not even realize there was a problem. This car needs a lot more pump and injector. A single in tank pump with a 62 turbo and good heads on ethanol based fuel. Not even 85% here and the pump can't hack it


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Right there is an argument for XFI.
 
I know it's an old thread, but why 8.0 AF ratio? I'm running 11.5 on the exact same setup ...and getting nervous seeing this!
 
E85? answered my own question...

Correct, he's reading actual AFR on an ethanol based fuel.

The sensor itself reads lamba, which is how much oxygen is in the exhaust stream. The sensor doesn't care about how much fuel you used to get that oxygen content. The ECM or the display device reading the O2 sensor lamba numbers converts it to AFR based on the fuel you're running.
 
thanks. I've been struggling thinking my Weldon regulator was messed up because it wasn't "boost referencing" but nothing was lean or correcting. You learn something new every day! thanks for replying, I'm so used to older Accel DFI systems, the FAST has incredible capabilities that I never knew about!
 
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