Frustrated.... Need help (long post)!!

turbohh

Active Member
Joined
Jul 9, 2001
Okay, guys, I have about 400 miles now on my new stroker motor, and it seems to be running just fine .... except it keeps weeping coolant out somewhere, but I can't find the leak. It's a 109 block, and ported stock heads, and I had an engine builder I trust do the machine work, and put it together. The block was decked and squared up, and the heads were surfaced during the build. I'm using a FelPro 9441PT (I think that the right number) HG, and used ARP 12-point 7/16 head studs. I got my builder the good high-temp Permatex teflon sealant for the threads, and he used ARP lube on the top side to get correct torque. We retorqued the gaskets three time over a day and half prior to engine install. The coolant appears to be coming off the passenger side area, wetting the starter area and dripping on the cross-over pipe. It's not much coolant, maybe a couple of teaspoons, but since it's dripping on the cross-over pipe, it smokes and smells. To complicate matters, I'm running Evans NPG+c waterless coolant, so I can't throw just any seal tabs in the cooling system. I have put 4 BarrsLeak tabs (which are supposed to be compatible with Evans), and one of my engine builders professional seal tabs from Pioneer engine rebuilder products. Neither has seemed to staunch the weepage. Just this last couple of days, I removed the pass side headers (GN1 flange to turbo mount brace broke again so it needed repair.... just like ATRs), crossover, starter etc, and used my Stant hand-pumped rad checker tool to pressurize the coolant system. I pumped it up to ~18 psi, and got no leakage anywhere. It does look like there may have been signs of coolant loss at the passenger side block/head mating surface (very slight amount of moisture clinging to the HG) at some point. Left the system pressurized for about three hours total, no drips or obvious weepage that I could find. I felt the top nut area of the head studs, and they seemed dry. I did not see any appreciable loss of coolant level, and the pressure dropped very slowly like I would have expected. I also re-torqued the four bottom head studs to 80 ft-lbs, and didn't really seem to get any additional movement from the nuts. I did not loosen the nuts since it's very tight clearance on that side. I pulled the pass side spark plugs, and they all looked beautiful, no signs of being coolant washed. I have not done a leak-down or pressure test, but really don't believe I've lost cylinder seal, but am willing to listen to the experts. Like I said, the car runs great save for this annoying leakage. I put the car back together today, and it still weeps after a short drive... I've watched for leaks numerous times while the motor is idling, put it on jackstands again today, and lay under it for a half an hour, running, and it never leaked sitting still. Ugh... I'm out of ideas.
Any thoughts on where the coolant is coming from?? Any other type or manner to testing I should do to verify where the coolant is coming from?? I hate to pull the motor out if I don't really have an idea of what the exact problem is, kind of fumbling in the dark. Is it possible to push coolant out under low to moderate boost conditions, but not under normal non-boost loads?? I'm willing to switch to water-based coolant, but I'm suspicious that won't fix the problem. I can't figure out why I'm not able to catch the damned car leaking when it's sitting still and idling, but drive it around some and it leaks. And why hasn't the stop leak done it's job?? Any thoughts on things I've overlooked would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks,
John A, Turbohh
 
Don't feel bad. These kinds of problems can be frustrating. It sounds like it only leaks when heat is present or the engine is running. Next thing I would do is that same pressure test but with the engine hot. You probably know this, but you'll have to let some coolant out carefully when the engine is hot to get your pressure tester attached.

I've not seen one leak yet, but the cylinder head has a freeze plug in the front and back. That back one sure will be hard to see.
 
You can pick up a UV dye that you can add to the coolant. Once it leaks it will leave a track that you can use a black light to see.
 
Good ideas... I'll try testing with the engine at temperature, and look into the the coolant dye.
Thanks guys!!
John A, Turbohh
 
I had a leak up front and it ran between the block and head and leaked down the back of the engine. You might look around the hard coolant lines up front of the engine.
 
Yes John,
Check all those heater hoses, the control valve and the hard line real good as Iv'e seen this happen acouple of times and guys swore it was the head gasket leaking.
 
At least you see your leak, My last motor lost radiator fluid in 20 minutes but wasn't leaking, I'd cracked a #4 cylinder a sleeve an the block. 8^0

Steel shim head gaskets leak if not installed correctly too

Good Luck!
 
Thanks for the advice guys... I replaced the heater core, water control valve, and the water hard line, and heater hoses when I put this motor in. I've looked for leaks in those areas, haven't found any, and they all seem dry. I don't have the torque converter inspection shield in place now (so I could monitor the rear main seal and my stroker crank for oil leakage), so the coolant does get partially entrained by the spinning flywheel and flung all over, exiting on the starter side. I've looked on the driver side for leakage as well when I had the system at pressure, but I haven't seen anything that leads me to believe I found the problem. This week I'll get some coolant dye, and and see if I find the source. I still suspect head gasket weepage, but I went with the FelPro's just to avoid this exact problem... I'll report back what I find out late this week... have to travel again for work, so I won't be able to do anything for a while this week. Thanks to all for your help and support.
Sincerely,
John
 
Since you have head studs it's more than likely migrating past the threads and weeping out one of the lower studs. I've never had any luck with teflon based sealants where the studs go into the block only silicone works. Typically the motor won't leak while it's running but will seep water once you shut it off hot and you'll find a puddle on the floor.

Neal
 
Neal,
Thanks for your experience. I do know that the leakage occurs while the motor is running, and the car is being driven. When it's just idling, it doesn't seem to actively weep, at least that I can see. I tried hard to find moisture around the head studs, but they all seemed dry. Hopefully the coolant dye will help me find out where the weepage is coming from.
John A
 
What kind of heads are you running? I had a set that would seep out of the exhaust flange on the heads themselves.
 
I know you tried bars leak which is messy..... Go to GM and get some of there clay tabs..... They work. GM puts them i. Almost all there new vehicles cause of this prob (especially Their Cad). Mu father and I run them in all of the TBs after a fresh rebuild.

Sent from my iPhone using Turbo Buick
 
What kind of heads are you running? I had a set that would seep out of the exhaust flange on the heads themselves.
I know you tried bars leak which is messy..... Go to GM and get some of there clay tabs..... They work. GM puts them i. Almost all there new vehicles cause of this prob (especially Their Cad). Mu father and I run them in all of the TBs after a fresh rebuild.

Thats what ended up fixing my problem also but they may not be compatible with the coolant he's using.
 
I'm running a ported set of factory 9445's. I don't think the GM seal tabs will work with the Evans coolant, but I'm willing to switch the coolant out after I find out where it's leaking from and when. If it turns out to be weepage from a head stud or something, a switch to water-based coolant and GM tabs would be my first experiment. If it's something else, I'll have to head scratch about what to do. Thanks for all the advice...
John A
 
Can you pull the studs individually, clean the threads, then try a new sealant? Sounds like a PITA to do, but I don't see how else you would be able to seal it up other than what your trying already.

~JM~
 
Use the dye, find where it's leaking then decide how to fix it.
 
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