First time at the Track. Had fun till last run

[Heg87t]

Hey Everyone,

I went to the track last night to run the car for the first time. Other than looking like a complete Noob as the light went green on my first run, I had a lot of fun.
Car ran 3 consistent passes of 14.4 at 100. Reviewing the Powerlogger data I leaned the car out a little to about 11.5 in 1-2 and 11.7 in 3-4. Still ran 14.4 so I decided to add 1.5 pounds of boost and ran a 14.002!
Hoping to get a slip with a 13. on it I added another ½ pound of boost for the next run.
Car left well and showed 2 degrees knock at the 1-2 shift. Pulled strong. As I approached the finish line the knock alarm went off and I saw 14 degrees on the Scanmaster. I immediately lifted off the throttle then got back on it to keep the Mustang from making me look too bad.
Went around for one more hot lap pass then shut it down in the pits.
Here’s the bad part. I looked at my PVC catch can and saw it was full of milkshake. I pulled the oil dipstick and all was fine. Coolant reservoir was unchanged. So I drove it home gently.
I have emptied the catch can twice and each time I see more oil and less milkshake in it. Here’s a picture of the can after I drove to lunch and made sure I stayed out of the boost.

Could I have lifted a head in that pass or pushed a head gasket into the intake? What do you recommend to check next?

Don’t suppose this will get better on it’s own will it?

 

[bison]

At that power level the engine will take a lot of detonation. It's probably just condensation from the crankcase,

 

[Tom Tom Turbo]

I'm surprised it didn't run faster with the mods you have. As previously stated, I wouldn't worry too much about it, but I would change the oil, run it normally for awhile and see if it comes back. You wouldn't believe the milky sludge that builds up in Chrysler V8s anymore. Twice I had guys at the local oil change place tell me I blew a head gasket in my Grand Cherokee.

 

[Nocooler]

I assume you weren't running E-85 at the track......

14* of knock is a lot and could have hurt something. As Bison said - LC2's will take a lot of abuse at stock power levels, but it'll only take it for so long until it lets go. I'd do a compression or leak down test to see where it stands.

That was my brother's stang you ran at the track last night, he said he was going to come talk to you - but you disappeared. Maybe I'll see you at the track sometime soon.

 

[1fast6]

what boost level? why is your car so slow with all those mods?

 

[Heg87t]

At that power level the engine will take a lot of detonation. It's probably just condensation from the crankcase,

I'm surprised it didn't run faster with the mods you have. As previously stated, I wouldn't worry too much about it, but I would change the oil, run it normally for awhile and see if it comes back. You wouldn't believe the milky sludge that builds up in Chrysler V8s anymore. Twice I had guys at the local oil change place tell me I blew a head gasket in my Grand Cherokee.

I didn't really leave with much boost but I thought it would be faster too. I think I need a better downpipe than stock. At least I was running the same times as my buddy's new Camaro SS and other friends built 76 Camaro. Everybody keeps telling me how impressed they are that a little V6 runs that fast.

What get's me is that I have NEVER seen that milky stuff before. Car was 175 - 185 degrees temp at the track and the drive was 1 hour there and back. Changed the oil the day before I went

I still need to figure out why the car knocked on that run. I don't want detonation at any power level. I need to analyze the Powerlogger runs from earlier runs that night.

I appreciate the advice.

 

[Onalky87]

what boost level? why is your car so slow with all those mods?

My thoughts exactly!!! Those are stock 86-87 times. He must have extremely low timing or something. Or 13psi

 

[Nocooler]

I didn't really leave with much boost but I thought it would be faster too. I think I need a better downpipe than stock. At least I was running the same times as my buddy's new Camaro SS and other friends built 76 Camaro. Everybody keeps telling me how impressed they are that a little V6 runs that fast.

What get's me is that I have NEVER seen that milky stuff before. Car was 175 - 185 degrees temp at the track and the drive was 1 hour there and back. Changed the oil the day before I went

I still need to figure out why the car knocked on that run. I don't want detonation at any power level. I need to analyze the Powerlogger runs from earlier runs that night.

I appreciate the advice.

Downpipe isn't your issue - the tune is. Your car should run 12's@108mph + before you add any more mods to it.

 

[Heg87t]

I assume you weren't running E-85 at the track......

14* of knock is a lot and could have hurt something. As Bison said - LC2's will take a lot of abuse at stock power levels, but it'll only take it for so long until it lets go. I'd do a compression or leak down test to see where it stands.

That was my brother's stang you ran at the track last night, he said he was going to come talk to you - but you disappeared. Maybe I'll see you at the track sometime soon.

That's on E-85. I am concerned with that much knock too. The real pisser is that the laptop battery died on that run so no log!

WOW small world. I was mad I lost that run against the Mustang. He has a nice car! I left about 10 minutes after that run. I thought it was going to rain soon with those clouds coming. My tires are pretty much bald so I don't drive in the rain.

 

[Nocooler]

That's on E-85. I am concerned with that much knock too. The real pisser is that the laptop battery died on that run so no log!

WOW small world. I was mad I lost that run against the Mustang. He has a nice car! I left about 10 minutes after that run. I thought it was going to rain soon with those clouds coming. My tires are pretty much bald so I don't drive in the rain.

Ouch - if you are getting knock on E85, that's not good.

How much boost and timing total?

 

[Nick Micale]

I would be surprised if you did NOT at least blow a head gasket?

When new a GN would detonate at stock boost of 15-16 psi on REAL pump gas, not the crap they sell now.

Running a 14.0 would be at 18-19 psi, and with 14 degrees of retard detonation can quickly turn to pre-ignition which can take out a head gasket with only a couple revolutions.

A compression test is in order to verify what happened. When you pull the plugs, lay them all out and see if one or 2 of the tips look different, if so that would be the bad hole.

I love working on GN's, but I tell all my customers, do NOT run at the track with pump gas, too many unknowns? A little race gas is much cheaper then replacing head gaskets. The few guys that do use pump gas at the track, have LOTS of experience behind them, much of it bad.

 

[Heg87t]

Downpipe isn't your issue - the tune is. Your car should run 12's@108mph + before you add any more mods to it.

OK, OK, I am slow!! :redface: I'm sorry. Please don't kick me off the board. :wink:
15-16 pounds boost leaving with about 0. Turbo and downpipe are stock.

I know it needs tuning. I was trying last night. Here's the log from my 14.0 run.
Please take a look and offer suggestions. I would love the advice.

 

[Nocooler]

OK, OK, I am slow!! :redface: I'm sorry. Please don't kick me off the board. :wink:
15-16 pounds boost leaving with about 0. Turbo and downpipe are stock.

I know it needs tuning. I was trying last night. Here's the log from my 14.0 run.
Please take a look and offer suggestions. I would love the advice.

I'd look but I don't have the software......my buicks were going before the power logger came out. I'm sure someone will straighten you out. If I had more time I'd offer to help you get it sorted out.....but it's not in the cards right now.

 

[1fast6]

what turbo and converter are you running? is the trans stock? were you spinning? what was your 60' times?
you might have a traction or slipping problem which can cause some knock

 

[Heg87t]

Thanks Guys

When new a GN would detonate at stock boost of 15-16 psi on REAL pump gas, not the crap they sell now.

Thanks Nick, I am running straight E85 and was about 16 pounds of boost. Are you talking pump 93 gas or pump E85?

what turbo and converter are you running? is the trans stock? were you spinning? what was your 60' times?
you might have a traction or slipping problem which can cause some knock

Stock turbo, downpipe, convertor, and trans.

I did spin a little going at the 1-2 shift and had a little knock show up. The big knock was on the top end and I know the car can't spin the tires at 80mph. 60' time was 2.25. Best was 2.14.

 

[Heg87t]

Thanks

I'd look but I don't have the software......my buicks were going before the power logger came out. I'm sure someone will straighten you out. If I had more time I'd offer to help you get it sorted out.....but it's not in the cards right now.

I appreciate the offer. Maybe another time.

 

[jasjamz]

This is your log correct? Boost reading is a Tad higher than what you said. Does it read the same on your powerlogger?

 

[Heg87t]

Ahhhhhhh!!!

This is your log correct? Boost reading is a Tad higher than what you said. Does it read the same on your powerlogger?

Well at 28.5# I should have been running 10's then!! No wonder I am getting beat up for being slow!!

That's my log. I show 14.3 pounds of boost on frame 892.

I have a 2-bar MAP sensor. The log shows the MAP sensor 4.594 volts. My boost gage agreed pretty close to the log.

 

[DavzGN]

Jasjamz's powerlogger is set for a 3bar map. which is why his shows 28psi. 28psi on a 3bar is the same voltage as a 14psi on a 2bar map. Since you have a 2bar map, you have no idea what your boost is once you hit 15psi since the 2bar maxes out between 14 and 15 psi.

David
87GN

 

[Heg87t]

Jasjamz's powerlogger is set for a 3bar map. which is why his shows 28psi. 28psi on a 3bar is the same voltage as a 14psi on a 2bar map. Since you have a 2bar map, you have no idea what your boost is once you hit 15psi since the 2bar maxes out between 14 and 15 psi.

David
87GN

That was my guess. Does the MAP max at the full 5 volts? Wouldn't 4.5 volts still be in range? I would think that only after 5 volts would it be unknown. I do have one frame at 16.2# and 4.918 volts.

I do understand what you are saying. I am pushing the grey area.
I have a 3bar in a box. Can't find a lot of things since I moved and boxed it all up.

Thanks for the help.