First time at the Track. Had fun till last run

[GNVYUS 1]

So a stock turbo with 60lb injectors, running E85 is going to have an IDC of 81% at 16psi.
What does your boost gauge show?

Please explain how you're going to get knock with 110 Octane at 16psi with an 11.6 AF/R? You're not, boost can't be at 16psi or Fuel Pressure is falling off a cliff in 3rd and it's not showing it etc. Lets just say, something's not adding up.

 

[Heg87t]

So a stock turbo with 60lb injectors, running E85 is going to have an IDC of 81% at 16psi.
What does your boost gauge show?

Please explain how you're going to get knock with 110 Octane at 16psi with an 11.6 AF/R? You're not, boost can't be at 16psi or Fuel Pressure is falling off a cliff in 3rd and it's not showing it etc. Lets just say, something's not adding up.

I am confused too. I wish the laptop battery wasn't dead for the last run where it knocked so I had data.

I keep adding fuel to the car. I am going to order a pressure transducer from Caspers so I can log that too and see what that tells me.

I didn't look at the boost gage at the end of the run; so I can't tell you for sure. I only have to pull the wastegate rod a about 1/16" to get it onto the puck so I doesn't seem like it is making a ton of boost and it only ran 14.0, 100.5.

I am going to let the car sit until I can get more tools to figure this out.

On the bright side, the oil in the separator looks better all the time. :smile:

 

[motorhead]

80+% IDC on E85 is right on the edge of safety and you really don't have anywhere to grow from here. The possibility that you have exceeded the measurable range of the 2bar MAP sensor is HIGH; go find your 3bar MAP sensor and install it now! Take the car for a spin and report back.

Otherwise we are all pissing into the wind with advice.

Also, grab a power inverter and connect the computer to it to avoid running on battery power.

 

[Pronto]

Also, grab a power inverter and connect the computer to it to avoid running on battery power.

That's what I do. When it's time to race I unplug it and run off that laptop battery then.

 

[gtfrede]

1 BAR is 14.7 psi not 2 BAR....stock turbo should never exceed a 2 bar map sensor....just adding that in there cause it seemed overlooked

 

[jasjamz]

1 BAR is 14.7 psi not 2 BAR....stock turbo should never exceed a 2 bar map sensor....just adding that in there cause it seemed overlooked

My 3 bar will only read 31 and some change. Your logic says it should read up to 44.1...it wont. I have yet to see a three bar that will.

 

[turb0buick57]

1 BAR is 14.7 psi not 2 BAR....stock turbo should never exceed a 2 bar map sensor....just adding that in there cause it seemed overlooked

A 1 bar sensor is for n/a vehicles. a 2bar sensor is for boost and reads up to 14.7psi. A 3bar sensor will read an additional "Bar" above the 2bar sensor, around 30psi.

 

[motorhead]

My 3 bar will only read 31 and some change. Your logic says it should read up to 44.1...it wont. I have yet to see a three bar that will.

That's because he doesn't understand what he's talking about, and even if he does he isn't communicating it very well.

The FACT is that 1 bar is essentially equivalent to our CONSTANT atmospheric pressure... anything above that become additional "Bars" of pressure. We always start at 1 Bar, another 14.5ish psi would make 2 Bar, 3 Bar would be 29ish psi and so on.

So if your NA car runs off of a MAP sensor it will only need 1 bar to measure against; because as you approach 0 vacuum or 0 psi or atmospheric pressure (100kpa) that is the limit;

If you run between 0 and 14.5ish psi of positive manifold pressure you will need a 2 Bar MAP sensor (ie. a stock Turbo Regal); and

If you so happen to be a man and run a lot of boost a 3 Bar MAP sensor is in order for anything up to ~29psi; 4 and 5 Bar MAPs are now on the market too.

For further information go here: Bar (unit) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia and Atmosphere (unit) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia It isn't a text book but it is better than the misinformation being thrown around in this thread.

 

[motorhead]

A 1 bar sensor is for n/a vehicles. a 2bar sensor is for boost and reads up to 14.7psi. A 3bar sensor will read an additional "Bar" above the 2bar sensor, around 30psi.

Great minds think alike.

 

[gtfrede]

Wow I'm sorry for the idiocy guys...

 

[GNRick]

That's what I do. When it's time to race I unplug it and run off that laptop battery then.

Why do you unplug it for racing?

 

[DaySleeper]

What is a pvc catch? I see the picture but I don't understand where the vacuum is coming from or the purpose of it.

 

[Heg87t]

What is a pvc catch? I see the picture but I don't understand where the vacuum is coming from or the purpose of it.

The vacuum comes from the PCV system. I ran the line from the stock PCV steel line through the catch can and back to the stock PCV vavle in the intake.
I installed it to catch the oil vapor and try to keep the intake system and intercooler cleaner.

 

[DaySleeper]

Okay...I see. That is bizarre that it would be filled with oil then. That would mean an extreme amount of blow by through the cylinders and pressurization of the crankcase. You should definitely do a compression test to see if your rings are shot. It might explain how your car is running bone stock times with the mods you have.

 

[Pronto]

Why do you unplug it for racing?

I don't want any unnessasary drain on the electrical system and I don't want extra wires in the shifter area.

 

[nonosv6]

Okay...I see. That is bizarre that it would be filled with oil then. That would mean an extreme amount of blow by through the cylinders and pressurization of the crankcase. You should definitely do a compression test to see if your rings are shot. It might explain how your car is running bone stock times with the mods you have.

no offense, but you obviously dont have much experience with turbo buicks or boosted vehicles then....even a non boosted vehicle has a positive crank case ventilation system pcv ....when u add boost to an engine ur pressurizing the cylinders. there will be blow by,and that pressure needs to go somewhere...it tries to find the easiest route out of the motor, whether it be through the pcv system or blowing out a gasket,oil pan valve cover rear main ect....that pressurized air is also carrying oil vapors with hence the reason its not routed out the exaust,well in stock apps.... stock systems put it back into the intake track,which in turn ends up coating your intake piping and inside of your intercooler with oil never mind put hot oily air in to the intake.....all of which lessens the cooling efficiency of the intercooler which can lead to detonation at lower boost levels with same octane gas....the reason the put it back into the motor is for emissions reasons.....the system he is running put an air oil separator inline to separate the air and oil,and catch the oil.....i actually run 2 an fittings off my valve covers to -12 braided line to a catch can with a breather...the catch can has a drain on it so i can periodically drain it...then the air vents to atmosphere...... im sure i didnt explain the whole purpose or process correctly , but u getting a better idea of what its for now?

 

[forzfed]

Wow I'm sorry for the idiocy guys...

Honest mistake, I work with pressure tables, and you have to add 1 atmosphere to get the right calculations. Every, once and a while I forget to add 1 atmosphere. It's like working with gauge pressure and absolute.

 

[Heg87t]

More Information From Testing Today

Hey Everyone,

I got another fuel pressure gage hooked up today and took the car out for testing.

At about 12-15 pounds of boost I was seeing 50-51 psi of fuel pressure.

I came back and rechecked the base pressure with the new gage and found about 38psi with vacuum hose off. I guess my rail mounted VSO gage is junk! I adjusted the base up to 43 psi.

This may explain why I keep needing to add fuel in the chip. Maybe a bad regulator or pump?

I am going to change the oil and do a tranny service today. Also check the plugs and do a compression test. Then I want to pressurize the regulator vacuum fitting and see how the fuel pressure rises. Any tips on how to pressurize the regulator?

Oh, and I did find my 3-Bar sensor and installed it.

 

[GNVYUS 1]

Well the base pressure was low, but it's moving 1:1 so far (if 12psi saw 50psi of pressure), the real test is it 1:1 at WOT?

But that explains a little bit about why IDC was higher than expected for a stock turbo at 16psi, I'd still like to see the exact psi at WOT now too.

Getting close, you'll figure it out.

 

[Heg87t]

Well the base pressure was low, but it's moving 1:1 so far (if 12psi saw 50psi of pressure), the real test is it 1:1 at WOT?

But that explains a little bit about why IDC was higher than expected for a stock turbo at 16psi, I'd still like to see the exact psi at WOT now too.

Getting close, you'll figure it out.

Thanks GNVYUS. I feel a little better finding that out. I have an Autometer electric gage coming Tuesday so I can tap into it and log in Powerlogger. That will give some more good data.

Here's a picture of the plugs. #1 is front right. Gap is about 0.035". They look uniform but I see they are pretty white, especially one side of the ground electrode. I am not very familiar with reading plugs on E85.