FAST problems (timing and RPM)

[TURBOZ]

The first problem is with out the car running and the key on. Sometimes the fast will read 7500rpm and start sparking the motor before I even crank?

The second problem just occured and is probably the reason my head gasket popped. My timing numbers on my program say for example 20 degrees. Then I look at the bottom where it reads actual timing and it always 6 degrees higher. I changed all the number around that cell where its reading and it still read 6 degrees advanced?

I called FAST tech which really sucks. They say the same thing everytime something goes wrong with the ecu...ohh it got to be something in your harness..Then when I send it back it the ecu...Anyway I cant see what would cause this the only imputs to the fast are the distrubutor wires. Anyone have any ideas on these problems?

 

[DRAGRACR]

I am having timing issues with mine also... They also blamed it on my optispark... My issue was with the timing being retarded as you rev the motor. The further you rev the motor, the further the timing is retarded. Basically like it had a mechanical advance distributor, but just the opposite of that being that timing is retarding. I also was having trouble with the timing being correct as far as to what I was getting to the crankshaft matching to the computer. (for example 30deg at crank would equal 35 deg to computer) This is with the crank reference angle set at 1 which is the minum setting......... I am pretty sure that this is the cause of me going through a set of mains, and just 2 weeks ago spinning a rod bearing. Apparently it is giving my motor a "detonating like spark" and knocking out the bearings... I have ran nothing but 114 race fuel in my motor since built. I sent my computer back in and had it set up for the inductive pick up and i am going to drop a distributor in and hopefully it will fix it......

 

[TURBOZ]

Originally posted by DRAGRACR
I am having timing issues with mine also... They also blamed it on my optispark... My issue was with the timing being retarded as you rev the motor. The further you rev the motor, the further the timing is retarded. Basically like it had a mechanical advance distributor, but just the opposite of that being that timing is retarding. I also was having trouble with the timing being correct as far as to what I was getting to the crankshaft matching to the computer. (for example 30deg at crank would equal 35 deg to computer) This is with the crank reference angle set at 1 which is the minum setting......... I am pretty sure that this is the cause of me going through a set of mains, and just 2 weeks ago spinning a rod bearing. Apparently it is giving my motor a "detonating like spark" and knocking out the bearings... I have ran nothing but 114 race fuel in my motor since built. I sent my computer back in and had it set up for the inductive pick up and i am going to drop a distributor in and hopefully it will fix it......

Im running a distrubutor in the rear of the motor, so I wouldnt expect a lot. FAST tech just sucks a$$. Im thinking of switching to DFI just because of that, and never install a fast again...Ill see if I can get through this on my own first.

Anyone that could give me some help on this. Im stumped, i think its the computer

 

[tazgn]

Too bad Craig Smith is gone... That's all I have to say...

Derrick

 

[norbs]

Have you talked to lance about this, he is the number one guy at fast, you best talk to him, before you give up.

 

[Reggie West]

I had one hell of a time getting the FAST to be in sync with the actual timing on the motor.

One of the reasons I went with a FAST from a Gen 6 with a VIC was the timing controls. A Gen 6 has a built in 6 degrees of advance no matter what you do.

As long as you know your motor is timed correctly on the crank ( make damn sure) do what you have to to get the crank reference angle to match timing on the crank with what is in the timing map.

I had a timing light on the Buick for 2 days until I knew it was right.

The crank reference angle is the only control for getting the timing right.

 

[TURBOZ]

If you go to the timing screen and look at the bottom where it gives actual timing, that box will read 6 degrees advance when compairing it to the program. Right now when I timed everything I set the program at 14 degrees end the actual timing box reads 20 degrees. Then I look at the dampner and that reads 20 so it 6 degrees off. I have not done any data logs with it so I can tell if things change. One thing is for sure no boost until everything is figured out.

The one thing that pisses me off is sending this box overnight. Its been back and forth from fast 4 times. Sh$ts getting expensive

 

[tonydee64]

Maybe I am way oversimplifying this a bit, but have you checked your inductive delay? Depending on how this is set you may be losing timing as you reach higher RPMs. Also, do you have your Spark Offset vs. Idle Speed Error set to any value that would allow the ECU to pull out timing in order to maintain a steady idle?

 

[NastyGn]

Originally posted by TURBOZ

I called FAST tech which really sucks. They say the same thing everytime something goes wrong with the ecu...ohh it got to be something in your harness..Then when I send it back it the ecu...Anyway I cant see what would cause this the only imputs to the fast are the distrubutor wires. Anyone have any ideas on these problems?

You may try calling Lawrence Conley. He has had some issues with timing sync with a couple of cars. I don't remember what he did to fix the problem. You can call him after 0500 pm CDT at (281) 540-3278.

I also just changed my car over to a distrubitor system from the stock coil pak and the ECM has to be sent back in for a wiring change to do this. So far no problems with the change over.

Good Luck

 

[bobc455]

FWIW, I had a problem on my coil-in-cap HEI, where the coil put out enough of an EMF to interfere with the pickup signal. That, combined with an MSD, made the ECM think the engine was running over 11,000 RPM while cranking. (Therefore it tried to pump in a "little" extra fuel).

I relocated my coil and the car has been fine since.

-Bob Cunningham

 

[bobc455]

Also, we have to ask the very obvious... have you adjusted your crank reference angle in the setup? What is it set at? What happens when you change it?

If that number is not set right, sending your box to FAST will accomplish nothing.

If you are already at maximum adjustment, then you can remove your distributor and reinstall one tooth off, so that the rotor is closer to the cap pickup at the right moment.

-Bob Cunningham

 

[TURBOZ]

Right now my crank referance angle is set at 50 degrees. When I set the car up fast told me 50 degrees before top dead on the compression stroke. Then drop the distributor in with the rotor facing #1. What happens when I change my crank ref angle? Will it affect the timing on the balancer vs timing in the program?

I got the car completely back together and I noticed that I only seem to have a problem at idle. If I rev the motor the timing bubble matches what the fast says at the bottom of the screen. But on decel its retarding the timing 6 degrees below the lowest timing number in the program. Example lowest number in my program is 25 on decel(no number in the entire timing table goes below 25). The fast will read 19 degrees instead of 25 where the bubble is crossing

 

[bobc455]

Okay. When they told you to set the crank reference angle to 50 degrees, you would then have to twist the distributor to make the FAST equal to the actual timing.

If your whole timing curve was off by the 6 degrees, then tweaking the reference angle (or turning the distributor) 6 degrees would fix it.

But, since your timing is not off by a constant amount, that isn't your problem.

I think I remember hearing that if your pickup is wired backwards, it can do funny things like what you describe. But I don't remember.

-Bob Cunningham

 

[tonydee64]

If your IAC follower isn't set properly could your spark correction table be pulling timing out on decel.

 

[bobc455]

Good point- also, make sure your timing trim is at zero.

-Bob Cunningham

 

[turbo_bu]

Originally posted by bobc455
Okay. When they told you to set the crank reference angle to 50 degrees, you would then have to twist the distributor to make the FAST equal to the actual timing.

If your whole timing curve was off by the 6 degrees, then tweaking the reference angle (or turning the distributor) 6 degrees would fix it.

But, since your timing is not off by a constant amount, that isn't your problem.

I think I remember hearing that if your pickup is wired backwards, it can do funny things like what you describe. But I don't remember.

-Bob Cunningham

What if the pointer of the distributor is not quite lined up with the pin in the distributor cap? At higher RPM's and more advance, the desired timing would line up closer between the cap and rotor than at slower speeds ??????? Not sure on the logic and how it applies to his EXACT problem but maybe though might trigger somebody elses memory .....

 

[tonydee64]

I'm a novice, but here is the way I would troubledshoot this problem.

1. Get the car to idle and the coolant warm enough that no fuel enrichment is taking place.

2. Rotate the distributor until the value in the spark table (where the car is idling) matches that at the crank. I would see where the car idles and temporarily make all of the values in the surrounding boxes match the actual opertating box. This will keep the computer from averaging the amount of advance. You can also play with the crank reference angle value too.

3. Set your timing trim values to all zeros in the spark offset vs. idle speed error.

4. Then, observe the crank timing at various RPM intervals in comparison to the values in the corresponding tables. Make a determination if you are losing or gaining (at the crank) spark advance in comparison to the values in the table. If you are losing timing then try adjusting your inductive delay downward, and upward if you are gaining advance.

 

[turbo_bu]

TurboZ

Just found this from the man (Craig Smith) after doing a search on inductive delay. I hope this helps ... (though I am concerned just how sensitive this really is )

http://www.turbobuick.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=46099&highlight=inductive+delay


quote ------------------

This setting is used to compensate for any fixed delay within the ignition system, regardless of its source. I believe the ignition delay setting that Motec uses is the same thing as the inductive delay setting in our software.

As far as changing this value from 96 uS to 5 uS, I have never verified or heard from anyone else that leaving it at 96 has caused any timing error with an MSD ignition system. I personally have no interest in grabbing a timing light and hovering over an engine running at 7000 RPM.

This setting is basically a fudge factor to account for delays in the ignition system no matter what is causing them. If you have your timing right on at 2000 RPM but the timing seems to retard itself at higher RPM, increase the value. If the timing advances with RPM, then lower the value.

 

[TURBOZ]

Originally posted by turbo_bu
TurboZ

Just found this from the man (Craig Smith) after doing a search on inductive delay. I hope this helps ... (though I am concerned just how sensitive this really is )

http://www.turbobuick.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=46099&highlight=inductive+delay


quote ------------------

This setting is used to compensate for any fixed delay within the ignition system, regardless of its source. I believe the ignition delay setting that Motec uses is the same thing as the inductive delay setting in our software.

As far as changing this value from 96 uS to 5 uS, I have never verified or heard from anyone else that leaving it at 96 has caused any timing error with an MSD ignition system. I personally have no interest in grabbing a timing light and hovering over an engine running at 7000 RPM.

This setting is basically a fudge factor to account for delays in the ignition system no matter what is causing them. If you have your timing right on at 2000 RPM but the timing seems to retard itself at higher RPM, increase the value. If the timing advances with RPM, then lower the value.

Could have possibly been my problem. Im having other problems with the car when its seems like its only running off 4 cylinder so I have not been playing with the computer much. Here is the link I started on another site if anyone cares to leave some feed back on the topic.
http://web.camaross.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=282885

 

[bobc455]

Testing the harness is easy with a noid light.

Have you spoken to your FAST dealer about any of this? FAST cannot properly support all of the units in the field, which is why they sell through dealers. That's also why you can't buy these things through Summit, because they can't give you the personal support that is necessary with these units. The dealers put a markup on the units, which is to compensate them for the time they will spend helping out the users. So try checking with your dealer.

With regards to the distributor rotor ("pointer") issue, the rotor should be close to the proper pickup on the inside of the cap, otherwise the spark might jump to an adjacent cylinder. Different distributor designs will be affected differently.

If possible, you should spin your distributor so the "pointer" (rotor) is closest to the pickup, then adjust the crank reference angle to correct the timing in the ECU. If you see that the rotor is lined up with the pickup at 20 degrees instead of 30, try spinning your distributor those 10 degrees, then adjusting your crank reference angle.

Just a thought.

-Bob Cunningham