engine shop for rebuild around Chicago/central IL

[Tom Tom Turbo]

I'm about fed up with this motor I built a few years back. Its never sealed up right around the front cover. I've replaced the gasket twice, done the oil pan, etc. I've gone as far as to have the front cover machined (it was a HV aftermarket one and wasn't flat)

The car runs/drives fine until you build boost and then it pushes the front cover gasket out right around the oil pump. I'm guessing maybe a bad ring or something didn't seat right. The PCV system is all new (valve, lines, etc) but somehow I'm still getting some crazy crankcase pressure or something.

I've done all the work I care to do on this....does anyone have a suggestion for a shop around the Chicago/Central IL area that can take care of this mess?

 

[BEATAV8]

Are you running any breathers? IMO, a built 109 motor should have 2 unrestricted open breathers on it with an opening of about 1 inch diameter for each breather. That will keep the crankcase pressure at or very near zero when you build boost and load the engine.

The PCV is your choice, you can use it or not use it. I prefer not to use it for simplicity sake.

Dennis at ProTrac Turbo Specialties may be one of the only full service turbo Buick shops around here for ya.

 

[TurboBuRick]

Always great advice from Steve. Very important to have open breathers.

I'm booked solid right now. If you can wait a little I can do what ever you need. I would do a leak down before anything though.

Dennis at ProTrac is a good option as well.

Rick

 

[BEATAV8]

Doh! Can't believe I forgot Rick. He's the other go-to-guy around here.

 

[Tom Tom Turbo]

Just some more info....oil pressure at cold start-up is 55-60 and hot idle is 15-20. It does go up with RPM like it should, but once the front cover seal is compromised, it drops to around 8 psi. I have Hartline valve covers with their billet breathers on both sides, but they're not "open" except for the bottom of them. Check out these pics and let me know if I'm wrong on something......my wife tells me all the time, I'd expect nothing less from you guys!

inside of one of the breathers after roughly 400 break-in miles

 

[BEATAV8]

The breathers do look to be a bit restrictive with all those little holes but not like there's something majorly wrong.
It sounds like your front cover gasket is popping out where it seals the main gallery? (the connection between the oil pump outlet and the main gallery) That would really be a major oil hemmorrage there.

I'll post a pic of the breathers I use in a few minutes.

 

[Tom Tom Turbo]

The leak appears to be coming from the bottom of the front cover just below the oil pump, where the front cover and oil pan meet. Of course, crazy me replaced 3 oil pan gaskets before I realized that it wasn't coming from there! Needless to say, I've gotten an oil pan job down to about 2.5 hours without a lift.....

 

[BEATAV8]

This is one of the little K+N breathers I like. Straight thru flow, about 1" diameter.

view from inside the valve cover:

 

[BEATAV8]

The leak appears to be coming from the bottom of the front cover just below the oil pump, where the front cover and oil pan meet. Of course, crazy me replaced 3 oil pan gaskets before I realized that it wasn't coming from there! Needless to say, I've gotten an oil pan job down to about 2.5 hours without a lift.....

Are you running one of those blue paper front cover gaskets from fel-pro? I ask because I quit using those several years ago when I found one that did not line up properly with my front over, in that same area you are describing below the oil pump. That was a leaker!

I switched to Cometic front cover gasket and oil pan gasket. Those fit perfectly.

 

[Tom Tom Turbo]

I am running the Fel-Pro front cover gasket.....maybe that's my problem. I've run Cometic oil pan and head gaskets for years with no issues. Now you have me wondering if I should try this one more time on my own and just use the Cometic front cover seal. I hesitate to try this.....if I do this again and it still leaks, I may just have someone drop the car off the floor jack on my face.

 

[BEATAV8]

I am running the Fel-Pro front cover gasket.....maybe that's my problem. I've run Cometic oil pan and head gaskets for years with no issues. Now you have me wondering if I should try this one more time on my own and just use the Cometic front cover seal. I hesitate to try this.....if I do this again and it still leaks, I may just have someone drop the car off the floor jack on my face.

Ha ha yep that's probably it. Go ahead and pull that front cover and line that blue gasket up against it and see how she fits. I'll take a peek in my gasket pile and see if I got one, if I do I'll post a pic.

 

[TurboBuRick]

I agree those breathers are restricted. Open those puppy's up.

Stock front cover or aftermarket?

Where the front cover and pan meet is the oil pan gasket. No?

RL

 

[Tom Tom Turbo]

Ok, breathers gotta go then. Also, the front cover is a high volume piece from Full Throttle, which I got back in 2007. We've modded it with the extra oiling line on the cam gear as well. I've had the cover machined and checked to make sure it is completely flat, since it wasn't when I got it from them.

 

[BEATAV8]

I didn't have a blue gasket on hand, but here's a pic of a used cometic. It lines up perfectly in the area below the oil pump on this aftermarket front cover. The last blue felpro I had totally missed the mark and was wandering around somewhere to the right of the cover's gasket surface.

no gasket:

 

[Tom Tom Turbo]

any chance you have a part number for the Cometic or at least a vendor that sells them? Thanks a bunch for all of your help! If you're around the Chicago area I'll have to look you up sometime and check out your car. I'm in the Naperville/Joliet area at least twice a month.

 

[TurboBuRick]

One thing I suggest check the front seal. I remember a similar situation where the front main seal had popped out the cover. On the aftermarket covers it can come out quite easy. Sure would be better that doing the cover gasket.

I would drill out those breathers. Make the inlet the size of the tube. You can drill the outer holes bigger as well.

RL

 

[BEATAV8]

The last time I ordered a cometic gasket I just ordered directly from their website (call-in if I remember correctly). Which reminds me I should order some more next month.

looks like it's C5698-031. stage I and stage II timing cover gasket (fits fine on a 109), LINK: http://www.cometic.com/domesticauto.aspx

Be sure to double check your cam button shims when you do the swap. Probably be a non-issue but be aware, different gasket different thickness may affect the cam button.

 

[Tom Tom Turbo]

One thing I suggest check the front seal. I remember a similar situation where the front main seal had popped out the cover. On the aftermarket covers it can come out quite easy. Sure would be better that doing the cover gasket.

I would drill out those breathers. Make the inlet the size of the tube. You can drill the outer holes bigger as well.

RL

Yeah, I checked that too....so far that hasn't been a problem. At least I feel a little better knowing that I've checked some of the stuff you experts suggest, good to know I'm not a total mechanic failure!

 

[Tom Tom Turbo]

The last time I ordered a cometic gasket I just ordered directly from their website (call-in if I remember correctly). Which reminds me I should order some more next month.

looks like it's C5698-031. stage I and stage II timing cover gasket (fits fine on a 109), LINK: http://www.cometic.com/domesticauto.aspx

Be sure to double check your cam button shims when you do the swap. Probably be a non-issue but be aware, different gasket different thickness may affect the cam button.

awesome, thanks! I looked on their website but wasn't sure if the Stage gasket fit ours as well. Think I'll be able to get the front cover off without having to re-do the oil pan gasket?

 

[BEATAV8]

awesome, thanks! I looked on their website but wasn't sure if the Stage gasket fit ours as well. Think I'll be able to get the front cover off without having to re-do the oil pan gasket?

Yes especially if you have a cometic pan gasket. It will stay intact and be ready to rock.