Engine oil differences

[Squid4life]

I've been evaluating one of these filters for approx 2 years now. I have just pulled apart a 3.8 stroker motor that was running low 9's at 150mph. The motor was spotless with the cleanest oil pan and bearings that looked new that I've ever seen.

So, who's filters are we talking about? System 1? Pro Products? Canton, etc? Spin on type or inline? What is the best micron size for an HP street motor?

 

[realspartan]

Back to the oil, one of the best synthetics out there in Castrol Syntec 0w-30 that is MADE IN GERMANY for the price. It is a true synthetic group IV. Seems to be readily available in quite a few places. It is SL rated and has a good amount of zinc and phosphorous. It also passes almost all the Euro Specs including BMW, Mercedes, Porsche, Volkswagen and so on. It is also a long life oil so you can leave in the crankcase longer if you wish; should be good for at least 12000 miles or one year. Add some ZDDP to feel more comfortable for extra insurance but i do not think it is really needed for a street TR.

Regards,
Realspartan

 

[luv2whelie]

I've been told on more than one occasion that "bulk oil" like Havoline 10-40 at an oil change place is different than the bottled Havoline 10-40. Anyone know if this is true? I change my own oil on the GN, but it's not the only car I have

 

["Reaper"]

Anyone useing AmsOil in there GN?
Was thinking about useing it but I like Valvaline VR-1 20-50w.


Shaun

 

[A2000RICH]

I've been told on more than one occasion that "bulk oil" like Havoline 10-40 at an oil change place is different than the bottled Havoline 10-40. Anyone know if this is true? I change my own oil on the GN, but it's not the only car I have

i have a few bulk drums--------275 gallons for engine oil and tranny fluid-------same havoline that comes in the quart bottles--------only difference is price--------you can save about 15 to 20% when buying in bulk--------add the cost of the approved storage tank and necessary pumping equipment to get it out and unless you are doing lots of oil volume it isn't much of a saving

 

[A2000RICH]

Back to the oil, one of the best synthetics out there in Castrol Syntec 0w-30 that is MADE IN GERMANY for the price. It is a true synthetic group IV. Seems to be readily available in quite a few places. It is SL rated and has a good amount of zinc and phosphorous. It also passes almost all the Euro Specs including BMW, Mercedes, Porsche, Volkswagen and so on. It is also a long life oil so you can leave in the crankcase longer if you wish; should be good for at least 12000 miles or one year. Add some ZDDP to feel more comfortable for extra insurance but i do not think it is really needed for a street TR.

Regards,
Realspartan

i read this post a while back and felt that it brought up a subject of great importance --------ie the new "long life oil" that is marketed for new cars------i felt that it was so important that we did a short tech brief for the web site regarding this subject--------when you really understand the facts one thing is clear --------the extended oil change interval that is specified in the newer cars with the use of these special oils does not apply to their use in our older cars---------and if anyone believes for even a second that use of these oils in an older car like our GN's mitigates frequent oil changes specified in the original owners manual they are totally mistaken--------oil life in an engine is mostly derived from the engine itself and the way it is used-------NOT so much the oil-------i have a new CTS-V and the way i drive it i would never consider an oil change as long as someone that "drives normally" whatever that means---------here is a preliminary copy of the brief that we will soon post on our site:

Extended Oil Change Intervals


Why Change Oil?
Why does oil have to be changed at all, you ask? In general it is important to dump contaminants which have been picked up by the oil. When mineral oil is heated, the viscosity increases as the lighter fractions evaporate, and some percentage of the molecules degrade into varnishes and sludge. An oil change restores the original desired characteristics. Although synthetic oil is more resistant to these effects, the additive package can be depleted to the point where there is poor acid, antiwear or detergent control in the sump which could allow corrosion or accelerated wear. A fresh oil charge brings these additives back in spec. In either case, an oil change removes soot, dirt, acids and other contaminants along with the old oil.

For many decades, the generally accepted best practice was to change oil every “three months or 3000 miles.” In the days of carburetors and low-grade mineral oil, this recommendation is probably a minimum. For vehicles made in the past few years however, extended oil change intervals are being recommended, in some cases as long as 15,000 to 20,000 miles!

Are Extended Oil Change Intervals Good For Engines?
From the engine’s viewpoint, having the oil changed less frequently does keep acid and dirt in circulation for a greater amount of the time. Modern engine combustion chambers are tighter due to improved materials and manufacturing tolerances. Compared to engines of old, there are fewer combustion products of moisture, soot, fuel and acids which get into the oil. Modern fuel management means far less cylinder wash down when cold, and less soot under enrichment conditions than with carburetors. Modern synthetic oils degrade much more slowly than did the older mineral oils on which short oil change interval recommendations were made.

All of these technological advances can potentially help a newly designed engine wear more slowly than its 30 year old counterpart. This slower wear is somewhat negated by the longer oil change recommendation, which keeps the contaminants circulating in the oil instead of removing them.

Can Extended Oil Change Intervals Be Used With Older Vehicles?
The advent of modern engine and power train control technology in conjunction with modern synthetic oil has allowed for these long oil change intervals. If you read the oil manufacturer’s recommendations for extended change intervals, you will see wording similar to what Mobil put on their Extended Performance Fully Synthetic Oil: “Excludes severe service applications involving racing and commercial use; frequent towing or hauling; extremely dusty or dirty conditions; or excessive idling. If your vehicle is covered by a warranty, follow the vehicle’s oil life sensor or the oil change interval recommended in your owner’s manual.” In other words, only the most casual and normal driving conditions are allowed in order to take advantage of the extended interval, excluding harsh and dusty driving conditions, short trips, extended idling, sporty driving, towing, mountain driving, etc. In other words, when an engine has the best control of its mixture, the oil is the least stressed and few contaminants re introduced to the engine. If any of these conditions are not met, the oil change recommendation is reduced to the more commonly found 3000-6000 mile interval, or whatever is recommended by the vehicle manufacturer.

Older vehicles, especially those with carbureted engines or early fuel injected engines are far less suited to long change intervals. Most have too much blowby, and the result is a lot of soot, fuel and moisture in the oil, which must be periodically removed. Despite using synthetic oil, which is vastly improved compared to older mineral oils, extended oil change intervals cannot be applied to these older engines. The extended change interval is a product of new engine design in conjunction with new synthetic oil design.

If you want to lengthen your oil change interval on your older vehicle, then the periodic oil sampling and analysis can help you know when a change is appropriate. Unfortunately a good oil analysis can cost as much or more than an oil change even if you change it yourself.

Do Extended Change Intervals Help Consumers?
From a consumer’s viewpoint, the most immediate effect of extended oil change intervals is to save trips to the dealer and the cost of the more frequent oil changes. If a consumer drives 15,000 miles a year, and a dealer charges $50 for an oil change, then changing the oil every 15,000 miles saves $200 per year over changing the oil every 3000 miles. Some consumers can feel happy to have not “wasted resources” with frequent oil changes. From a longer-term perspective, it means the engine will wear more quickly. Given the relatively poor quality of many car systems compared to the engine, this may not be a problem, since many cars are discarded for reasons other than the engine failing.

What Do Dealers Get From Less Frequent Oil Changes?
From the dealer’s viewpoint, they are trading off a certain loss of income performing oil changes for an increase in new vehicle sales. They have always made money on warranty oil changes and they stand to lose some of this income with the extended intervals. Balancing this is the fact that the extended oil changes do indeed reduce the total service life of an engine, ultimately resulting in the sale of a new car. After all, these people are in the business of selling new cars.

What are the Manufacturer’s Incentives?
To understand these extended oil change interval recommendations, let’s consider the reasons why a manufacturer would suggest it in the first place. After all the cleaner the oil, the more reliable and long-lived the engine. Wouldn’t a manufacturer want to increase the likelihood that an engine would last, at least out of the warranty? As it turns out, with current fuel injection, engine manufacturing tolerances and modern oil, it is not much of a feat for a modern engine to make it through the warranty period, even with infrequent oil changes.

In countries like Japan where cars are scrapped or parted out to foreign markets on average in less than 10 years, the drive train warranties are effectively a lifetime warranty. Inspections called ‘Shaken’ are required in Japan, three years from a new purchase, and every two years afterwards. These inspections can cost as much as $3000, which greatly incentivizes people to buy new cars. In this environment, there is little reason to maintain or change oil in a car in an effort to make it last more than 50,000 to 60,000 miles.

Perhaps the main reason that manufacturers are recommending extended oil change intervals is marketing pressure. Vehicle manufacturers are using environmental consciousness as a new marketing tool to take advantage of consumer’s increased awareness of the environment. Another reason is competition, after all, if one company is touting extended oil changes, it would put another manufacturer at a disadvantage to not follow suit. Also, with the increasing price of engine oil, a longer change interval dangles the promise of the potential savings of half as many oil changes in front of a consumer. These marketing tactics are not in themselves bad, but make no mistake: if not for these factors, manufacturers would not be advocating extended oil change intervals any more than they would want to offer 100,000 mile warranties.

Ultimately the most compelling explanation of why manufacturers can suggest extended oil change intervals is: engine life has increased so much in the last fifteen years that they can afford to sacrifice some engine life for the aforementioned reasons without any significant impact on warranty repair cost or their bottom line.

 

[GNRick]

Can anything be determined from the color of the oil? I think I read somewhere that it isn't good to change the oil too frequently....you should at least wait until it turns a little dark in color.

 

[chopped39]

Cheap autozone oil is exactly what it is. I had a sable with blown headgaskets. I replaced the gaskets and ran it with valuecraft oil for 5 mins and drained it.It came out like water so i figuired it was the coolant mixed in with it. So I drained and filled it with the rest of the case with a new filter. I ran it for 20 mins and drained it it came out like water again. This is 10w40 im using.Well I had some havoline 10w40 from zones close out and put that in there and changed filter. I ran it for 20 mins and drained it .It came out just like I put it in. I run castrol synthetic in all my dd cars with napa gold (wix) filter. I used to run royal purple but it gets expensive.Once the limited is running I will go back with royal purple in that one. As for resuable filters my buddies father used to run outlaw cars and he used oberg filters. I know they are not cheap but he said the were the best filter to use.

 

[EVIL]

I used to change the oil in my 97 svt cobra every 1000 miles. It came out clean every time. I did this because the cars was always over 100 mph and over 6000 rpm's everyday. The car ran perfect and my mechanic said "If everyone was like you there would be no need for mechanics". the point was taken.

D

Can anything be determined from the color of the oil? I think I read somewhere that it isn't good to change the oil too frequently....you should at least wait until it turns a little dark in color.

 

[eric_1984ttype]

Just for everyones general knowledge carquest oil is supposed to be rebottled valvoline.....

Takes about a dollar a quart off.

 

[DSR-TurboT]

Anyone useing AmsOil in there GN?
Was thinking about useing it but I like Valvaline VR-1 20-50w.


Shaun

I run VR-1 20-50 also. I have been using Napa gold filters for a while too. They are wix filters just branded as Napa. They can cross reference them to match a PF-52.

 

[DSR-TurboT]

Can anything be determined from the color of the oil? I think I read somewhere that it isn't good to change the oil too frequently....you should at least wait until it turns a little dark in color.

The only damage done by changing oil too frequently is to your wallet.
Oil life is determined by many factors. How hard an engine is run and running condition of the engine. Besides lubrication your engine oil is also cleaning your engine.

 

[DSR-TurboT]

i have a few bulk drums--------275 gallons for engine oil and tranny fluid-------same havoline that comes in the quart bottles--------only difference is price--------you can save about 15 to 20% when buying in bulk--------add the cost of the approved storage tank and necessary pumping equipment to get it out and unless you are doing lots of oil volume it isn't much of a saving

I have been thinking of using some of my local resources to start doing this myself. Just wasn't sure of the cost savings.

 

[Ross L]

Excellent info Richard. Do you use the drivers display in your CTS-V re oil change intervals? I try to change mine before it gets to 35% "oil life" or so. The Buick gets changed about every 1500 miles(1-2 years) add a bottle of ZDDP plus.
Ross