1LowLeSabre
New Member
- Joined
- Mar 13, 2008
I'm sure this has been asked or even pondered by most of us. Not counting the new GTO, I think our TB's are the last real muscle cars.
Do we own the last true muscle cars?
- Thread starter 1LowLeSabre
- Start date
Dennis Kirban
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Mar 5, 2009
kirban 2 cents worth
Might want to rephrase your question: Do we own the last American Made US muscle car?
If that is the question, your answer may indeed be correct since most car companies now with governement involvement may concentrate on un inspired cars designed to go from point A to point B and plugged in each nite. Lone exception may be the Corvette.
On the bright side it happened before in the mid 1970s during the gas crisis and 55 mph law....until the mid 1980s when the 5.0 hit and Buick made quite a stir.........GTO on the fence with that one half Australia-half US....
Just my thoughts....as the foreign car business will still be building some potent cars Audi-Porcshe-BMW-Ferrari-etc....
kirbanperformance.com
denniskirban@yahoo.com
Might want to rephrase your question: Do we own the last American Made US muscle car?
If that is the question, your answer may indeed be correct since most car companies now with governement involvement may concentrate on un inspired cars designed to go from point A to point B and plugged in each nite. Lone exception may be the Corvette.
On the bright side it happened before in the mid 1970s during the gas crisis and 55 mph law....until the mid 1980s when the 5.0 hit and Buick made quite a stir.........GTO on the fence with that one half Australia-half US....
Just my thoughts....as the foreign car business will still be building some potent cars Audi-Porcshe-BMW-Ferrari-etc....
kirbanperformance.com
denniskirban@yahoo.com
Hardly. Many, many cars have far out-performed ours over the last 23 years.
BlackMetal
Active Member
- Joined
- Sep 29, 2005
I don't really consider them to be in the first place. 231 with a turbo....
Sure, exclude anything made at the Corvette plant... Sorry, new ZR1 wins. Now, the problem is I can't take the wife and boys out for ice cream in a ZR1. The Buick needs to get back on the road this summer for that. There are several good cars built after '87.
corsair231
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Jul 8, 2005
Performance itself is not a qualifying factor for a muscle car. I think the 80's G-bodies are the last ones that really fit in the classic muscle car mold. (Our cars, along with the MC SS and the H/O 442's.) Take a mundane, mid-level chassis/body combo and stuff the biggest engine your make offers in them in the name of straight line, stop light performance targeted to the guy that really needs a car that can get the groceries and take the family out while still giving him the impression that he's driving a performance machine. Hang a catchy name on it and a few badges and presto, you have a muscle car.
Our cars just got lucky in that we are the Hemi's and ZL-1's in the engine comparment compared to the other G-bodies. Some people argue that we don't fit because our's have 231 v-6's with a turbo instead of an actual v-8 but can we help it if our engine size comes from a hair dryer
. After all a 231 at 2 bar is equal to a 462, right? Plus it was Buick's top engine.
Camaros, Mustangs, Cuda's, etc are pony cars which stressed style along with the performance and handling. They were more of a sport coupe and were basically designed from the get go around the engines that would go into them. This is where the new GTO falls but even then it's on the outside edge towards being more of a sport tourer than a pony car and add to that the fact that it is actually an import. Sport Tourer is also where just about every performance car that comes out these days hits. Corvette's were never muscle cars, they were true sport's cars and have always been in a league of their own among American cars.
Our cars just got lucky in that we are the Hemi's and ZL-1's in the engine comparment compared to the other G-bodies. Some people argue that we don't fit because our's have 231 v-6's with a turbo instead of an actual v-8 but can we help it if our engine size comes from a hair dryer
. After all a 231 at 2 bar is equal to a 462, right? Plus it was Buick's top engine.Camaros, Mustangs, Cuda's, etc are pony cars which stressed style along with the performance and handling. They were more of a sport coupe and were basically designed from the get go around the engines that would go into them. This is where the new GTO falls but even then it's on the outside edge towards being more of a sport tourer than a pony car and add to that the fact that it is actually an import. Sport Tourer is also where just about every performance car that comes out these days hits. Corvette's were never muscle cars, they were true sport's cars and have always been in a league of their own among American cars.
Haven't heard anyone mention the 95-02 Camaros...I had an '02 Camaro SS with LS1 that ran a 13.25@105mph, 2.1 60' time. Did that on street tires. Stick some slicks on there and it would have been a high 12's easy. Only performance mod was a KN filter and a hypertech performance tune on the chip. That's muscle.
well I think this is a "generation" question. Kids now think a Honda/Evo are "muscle cars" to them. Ask them about a 66 427 Cobra or a 67 427 Vette and you will get the deer in the headlight look I think the Buicks were the "kings" of the 80's but that was yesterday and yesterdays gone
I think the Buicks were the "kings" of the 80's but that was yesterday and yesterdays gone turbo39151
anycoloraslongasitsblack
- Joined
- Nov 7, 2002
The turbo regal is the greatest muscle car ever! Period.
And those who don't agree can post up so Shane can strip them of their tb.com memberships.:biggrin:
There's lots of great cars before and after the TR but how many family size cars with a v-6 and and a less than $20k price tag can do what the TR can? Not too many.
Just my .02
And those who don't agree can post up so Shane can strip them of their tb.com memberships.:biggrin:
There's lots of great cars before and after the TR but how many family size cars with a v-6 and and a less than $20k price tag can do what the TR can? Not too many.
Just my .02
Have to agree with Grumpy on this one. It is a generation thing. A lot of times the car you grew up with is the car you want. My parents were very much into muscle cars, so I am also. My first car was a 1967 Chevy II that I still have.
When I talk to some of my younger cousins, they are into the imports. Mainly the Supra, EVO, WRX, and VTEC cars. They grew up with the Fast and the Furious and take it for gospel. They honestly thing that hitting the Nassssss button will through you into the back seat. And I've learned to respect the AWD cars. Because they can very easily embarrass a RWD in a quick stop light street race.
Turbo Regals are by no means the last Muscle cars made. But the best from the 80s. 1993 and up F bodies, Mustangs, and Challengers definately fit the bill. I would not classify the ZR1 as a muscle car though. That is more of an exotic since it is priced over $100,000 and 99% of the people on this board can not afford one.
When I talk to some of my younger cousins, they are into the imports. Mainly the Supra, EVO, WRX, and VTEC cars. They grew up with the Fast and the Furious and take it for gospel. They honestly thing that hitting the Nassssss button will through you into the back seat. And I've learned to respect the AWD cars. Because they can very easily embarrass a RWD in a quick stop light street race.
Turbo Regals are by no means the last Muscle cars made. But the best from the 80s.
1993 and up F bodies, Mustangs, and Challengers definately fit the bill. I would not classify the ZR1 as a muscle car though. That is more of an exotic since it is priced over $100,000 and 99% of the people on this board can not afford one.The G8 Qualifies under that formula. A 400 HP 13 sec four door car
turbo39151
anycoloraslongasitsblack
- Joined
- Nov 7, 2002
Yeah but it looks like a reworked grand am... Ugly IMHO.
corsair231
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Jul 8, 2005
Double dis-qualified. Once for the four doors. All "muscle cars" were two door sedans or hard top body styles (with an exception for certain convertibles) and secondly if you are talking the Pontiac G8 then it is imported as well. It would be more of a sport tourer like the GTO. Does the G8 share the body with any other GM car or come with a different engine option? After all, Chevelle's weren't muscle cars until you called them SS's and put a big block under the hood.
Would the same be true if our beloved Turbo Buick never progressed past the 1985 models?
The MCSS remained the same into the '88 sales year and the Hurst/Olds - 442 lingered into 1987 unchanged. Imagine if both of those models were given a similar HP boost, ie. TPI 350 etc.
Junior Samples
Walk Away
- Joined
- Aug 3, 2007
Wasnt there a two door Riviera with a supercharged 3800? It's n ot a pony car I wouldnt think.
Corsair has it though. A mid-level car with a bigger engine. I dont know if I would agree with the 231 being a "Bigger engine" though.
Maybe when the term Muscle Car came about, there were no turbo'ed, s-charged aminstream cars yet. Good debate though.
Corsair has it though. A mid-level car with a bigger engine. I dont know if I would agree with the 231 being a "Bigger engine" though.
Maybe when the term Muscle Car came about, there were no turbo'ed, s-charged aminstream cars yet. Good debate though.
DJ Red Barron
Door-To-Door Pipelayer
- Joined
- May 10, 2003
I consider Camaros & Firebirds (especially 4th gens) sportscars. The same with a Vette. The new ZR1, as mentioned, almost falls under exotic due to price alone. Still a sportscar IMO.
As far a muscle cars go, yea, I think the TBs are the last of the muscle cars. And many a gearhead who drove the original muscle cars when they were brand new tend to agree.
But, it's all a matter of opinion I suppose.
As far a muscle cars go, yea, I think the TBs are the last of the muscle cars. And many a gearhead who drove the original muscle cars when they were brand new tend to agree.
But, it's all a matter of opinion I suppose.
Turbo-Archie
Active Member
- Joined
- Oct 8, 2002
My simple definition of a true muscle car is that it must have a chrome/ steel bumper.
New Camaro's and Corvette's are sports cars.
..
New Camaro's and Corvette's are sports cars.
..
BlackoutDrunk
Spring Loaded Idiot
- Joined
- Jul 30, 2007
I tend to think a certain amount of the equation depends on reputation. I owned a muscle car (1970 cutlass sx w/ram air W32) and I got a lot of looks in that car but I must say that the GN has a reputation equal to about any old "muscle car".
To me a "muscle car" has always been an American made car that started it's life as a normal (2 door) car or family sedan and had an upgraded power plant stuffed in it. Chevelles weren't muscle cars until the SS option, the pontiac was a tempest until it had a "hot" engine stuffed into it and became the GTO, same went for Ford, Mopar and AMC. Our cars were just regals until they put the "hot" engine (3.8t) into it and IMO it then became a muscle car.
To me a "muscle car" has always been an American made car that started it's life as a normal (2 door) car or family sedan and had an upgraded power plant stuffed in it. Chevelles weren't muscle cars until the SS option, the pontiac was a tempest until it had a "hot" engine stuffed into it and became the GTO, same went for Ford, Mopar and AMC. Our cars were just regals until they put the "hot" engine (3.8t) into it and IMO it then became a muscle car.
