Diagram of my experimental alchykit

[Turbo__Tim]

Oops, the link doesn't work anymore. I'm working on it....

I am excited about this system I'm building, and thought I would share the inner workings of it with yous guys. All suggestions and comments are welcome. I will be trying this out monday (hopefully). The soldering is nearly finished. All I need to do is wire it into the car.

One thing I havn't figured has to do with testing the solenoid, and high speed valve. I want to be able to activate them individually in 'Park' with the pump motor running. I can run pos, and neg. lines to them, and turn the pump on, and de-activate the injector pulse to the 1st stage, but I need to run four lines, and have a switch to activate the pump, and another one to interrupt the injecftor pulse...Sheesh there must be an easier way! I want to make sure the alchy is getting through the nozzles so I need to hear the engine stumble at idle, activating each stage one at a time before I do a wot blast. I'm kinda stuck as to how to do that without all the B.S....

Remember, I am merging this with an SMC kit. (This kit adapted to Aquamist nozzles.) The "arm" voltage is activated once the SMC hobb reaches 14 ps1. I'm taking the voltage right off the line that feeds the pump motor. (+ voltage off the original Hobbs switch, which is not shown in the diagram). The relays need + arm voltage, as well as input voltage (right side in the diagram) and a ground to allow the + voltage to feed through. This is used in nitrous systems to prevent accidental discharge. I use it because I want the system to activate at 14 psi, and I don't want 8-9 volts-(half motor speed voltage) to be the working voltage in this system. I hope it is enough voltage to arm the relays.

It might help if I mentioned that the solenoid, and the speed valve are both passing alchy, not voltage..

(If not, I will be SOL, since this is where everything starts)...;(

Here is what happens after wot (hopefully)

The boost hits 14 psi and the pump motor turns on. This arms the 1st speed valve relay (and the second stage relay at the same time) and activates the 1st stage speed valve. (The 1st stage continues to run all through the quarter)It also activated the RPM activated window switch, though that isn't on yet.

As the boost hits 18 psi, the 2nd stage hobbs switch (in the diagram)completes the ground to the second stage solenoid. As rpm's reach the 4,000 rpm mark, the window activated switch provides a ground to the second stage relay, and that relay passes 12 volts to the second stage solenoid which sprays (along with the first stage)until the engine reaches a rpm level that I select, and shuts off.

After the shift to 2nd gear, the first stage remains running to keep temps down a bit. After timing begins to increase, and the temps begin to rise the alchy will come on again, and shut off just before the shift into 3rd happens.

I haven't tested this out yet, so maybe somebody can suggest at what rpm's when I should turn the second stage off and on at?

I should be testing monday, I'll let you all know the results. Eventually, this will be a water only injection system. (I hope)

The speed valve (from Aquamist) is very expensive so I wouldn't reccomend anybody just go out and buy one. It runs off the injector pulse and gives a linear delivery, but I'm told it won't work through the entire quarter (need several speed valves for that!) so I'll just use it for all it can contribute. Hopefully it will do half the job when I switch the system to water. Of course at that point I will need a more powerfull pump to get atomization that is needed with a water only system. Maybe...

 

[Steve Hill]

Tim, FYI the private email I sent you got bounced back as undeliverable. Also, the link to diagram doesn't work for me either.

 

[Red Regal T]

I definitely think you're on to something here. Glad you explained all you've been talking about for the past six months. I really get off on this stuff......don't you? Have you checked the delta flow rate of your fluctuating system? If not, I'd solder in a sporadic solenoid and this will surely cure the problem of diminishing platitudes. How about the WG.....did you plug it into the RF? You can be flexible there. I'm sure you already checked into that, though and not running it in plus or minus 5.677 mega-jitts. Super-misting fogger jet nozzles are sooooo important for the positive upsweep of the linear CR-02. I don't know why more guys aren't doing it this way. You proved it could be done by running 14s. Keep up the good work, and DO keep us informed.

 

[Pronto]

Wow, wouldn't it be easier to drink the alky and think you went faster? I thought mods to a TR were simple.

 

[Turbo__Tim]

Steve, I've enabled your E-Mail address. Please re-rend. Thanks!

Red - BAD! Go lay down!

Pronto, Yes normally it is simple. I am trying to tweek the SMC kit. This is too expensive for most however I am just testing the fundamentals at this point, and trooling for input, and some usefull information from our members.

I do have a less expensive upgrade for the SMC kit in mind. It would delay the spray turn-on point (second stage), but would not turn the spray off at a set rpm. This will need to wait until testing is finished. Then I will reconfigure my system to simulate the lesser expensive set-up.

Sorry if some people don't find this interesting, but a few folks will benefit in some way - I'm sure...

 

[Steve Hill]

stevemon, I don't think it's wise to encourage Red hahahaha

 

[BoostKillsStres]

Turbo__Tim, I would imagine once you hit 18 psi and around 4000 RPM and activate your 2nd stage you won't need to shut it off since if your on a pass and running the car to 5200+ RPM before the shifts, the RPM usually only drops to 4000 so you'll need it to stay on.

Also I'm not sure on the extender but I wouldnt' expect timing to drop off at 4000 rpm and then begin to rise back, I'd think by 4000 your at total timing.

 

[Turbo__Tim]

Thanks for your reply Mark. That was exactly what I was looking for!

Actually the 1st stage will still be on (doesn't shut off in this configuration) so I will start testing with a start rmp of 4200, and a finish at 4800. (second stage only).

Hopefully the 1st stage will deliver enough alchy during that brief interval to keep knock away.

Thanks again

 

[Turbo__Tim]

Originally posted by stevemon
I don't think that'll be necessary as Red is probably on the floor laughin his A$$ off already.

However, I believe in osmosis so maybe these complicated terms will even sink though my thick skull some day. Please tell us the gains vs cost outlay you arrive at when it's been finalized.

Just want to add that I enjoy Red's sense of humor here and also your sensibilties in not taking offense to what he says Tim. I enjoy reading what you have to say, even when I don't know what I just read.

Hehe I know you understand much more than you are letting on but to recapp, the 1st stage runs like a seventh injector, and doesn't shut off. The second stage only sprays after 18 PSI, and only during an rpm window of, say, 4200 - 4800.

About Red, if he didn't truley admire me he wouldn't waste his time offering his support and encouragement the way he does. He has done much for us Buick guys, and is the fellow to get in touch with for good deals. He hates to see people waste money, that's what I like about him.

If you met him in person, you would find him to be a real nice guy. Of course I could be wrong about that....

 

[Razor]

Experimenting is cool..

I dunno bout using RPM's as a reference..thats like using VSS..and finally the SMC box delivers a PWM signal..depending on its duty cycle will depend on how long the "pump" is on. So using it may lead to consequences. You get better results using Hobbs switches. but you wont know until ya try it at the "track"..since this is the only place where mods count..

I also looked into sampling the INJ pulses out of the ecm..have circuit..just havent used it

 

[Turbo__Tim]

Originally posted by Razor
Experimenting is cool..

I dunno bout using RPM's as a reference..thats like using VSS..and finally the SMC box delivers a PWM signal..depending on its duty cycle will depend on how long the "pump" is on. So using it may lead to consequences. You get better results using Hobbs switches. but you wont know until ya try it at the "track"..since this is the only place where mods count..

I also looked into sampling the INJ pulses out of the ecm..have circuit..just havent used it

Ok I'm not an electronice guy. My degree is in industrial engineering, and cable TV. I have taken some electronics courses (enough to make me dangerous) and I guessing the pulse width modulation that comes out of the SMC kit as the working voltage that drives the motor is the result of clipping the ac sinewave to reduce voltage. An electronic 'dimmer switch'- right? That's too high of a frequency to bother the electromagnents in the coil. Plenty of inductance to carry over the 'off time' of the pulses.

Sheesh you had me scared there for a while....

Rpm's are used as a reference because high rpm's = high timing. A good enviroment for alchy mist to be in.

I'm using 2 hobbs switches. Say the word, and I will E-Mail a diagram for your perusal.

Hmmm, it has stopped raining so I'm going to go out and install the finished kit in the car. Later...

 

[Razor]

The timing tables within the chip dont quite work like that.."if" you used it at WOT and the LV8(load) and MAF were to be pegged..then it would use those numbers that your thinking off.

As far as the PWM, I dont recall exactly what frequencythe SMC kit runs at. And its really not 12 volts..so you may want to check those lines..maybe drive a relay with the smc kit and not "other" electronics.

Hope you have a direct scan for recording the entire pass..so you can make comparo's before and after.

Send me the diagram..maybe I can help..no problem.

Julio

 

[Turbo__Tim]

Hehe, I won't need help until it doesn't work right. It's a simple configuration of 2 hobb switches, 2 relays, 1 MSD rpm window activated window switch (the kind that turn on, and off) an alchy solenoid, and a speed valve from Aquamist.

The intent is to spray the second stage only between 4200, and 4800 RPM.

The first stage is pulse modulated, and runs full time. (Until boost drops below 14 psi).

Pia to build. 75 solder points. I'm still looking for double throw push switches for the 2 'spray on' test lines.

Anybody else wants to take a peek at the diagram can E-Mail me at thall141@comcast.net It's a jpeg, so you might as well just print it. 8 "X 10" should be fine.

BTW the hobbs switch that is part of the SMC original set-up isn't shown in the pic. It serves to drive the pump, and supply 'arm voltage' to the relays...

Razor, wait for the second E-Mail. Better quality pic.