Cost To Machine 109?????

[95' regal gs]

Don't take this personal, but seeing that you are new to the board, and maybe turbo Buicks [?], you ask a question, and then "debate the answers.

We build lots of "new" blocks, Dart, indy, World, TA, and they actually take MORE machine time than a used block.

First, when a customer spends thousands of dollars to build a performance engine, ALL the details must be completely checked and brought within very close tolerances. New blocks are not machined to finish specs, as the customer and shop determine this.

Like was stated, $2000 is just a start on a 109 block, add things like a stroker, stage or alum block, oiling system mods, and it goes up fast from there.

You have a goal of mid-9's, so in a GN this equates to at least 900 HP. To do
this consistently and reliably, you need to have about 1000 HP available.
This will need more than $2K worth of block work.

Opinions and comments are cheap, want some true $$$$ figures, ask the guys that have been there - mid 9's that is!.

Thank you. The only reason I debated the answers is that I'm not going to accept a statment as true without a little explanation, fair enough? Your comments have been alot more helpful than "yeah right, good luck". I appreciate the input. Inputs from guys who have gone mid 9's is what I'm looking for. I'm not new to the automotive field (been a master certified tech since I was 16), but I do not have much personal experiece in the performance side of the industry. I'm learning that though similar, the two a really completely different animals. I guess I'm used to the o.e. stuff, when I replace a short block its just change the parts and go (I can hear it now "must be nice" ). It seems the popular consensus is leaning toward a Stage II, guess I better start saving more money..... It never ends.

 

[BEATAV8]

We build lots of "new" blocks, Dart, indy, World, TA, and they actually take MORE machine time than a used block.

Wow this is news to me... that's just not acceptable. Does this mean a TA block needs to be square decked and line honed and whatever just to be ready to accept stock stroke rotating assembly? At most, I would expect the cylinders would need to be torque plate honed to acheive the desired piston/bore clearances but that's it. After that I should be able to file fit the rings and assemble it in my garage. Anything more is a real turn off - given the price paid for a "machined" block. If those blocks (either TA and/or the upcoming Champion) need to be line honed and have the lifter bores bushed etc... then they are not being made properly. A "ready to go" product would be much more viable.

Needless to say... I am a bit dismayed.

 

[Nick Micale]

Needless to say... I am a bit dismayed.

Sorry you are "dismayed", but welcome to the real performance world!

Purchase a new factory replacement bare block and install your "old" parts in it [any make], if you could, without any machine work, and you will have a disaster.

Even items like after market intakes usually need machine work for proper fit.

You must realize we are in the performance world here, NOT the factory replacement arena.

 

[95' regal gs]

Sorry you are "dismayed", but welcome to the real performance world!

Purchase a new factory replacement bare block and install your "old" parts in it [any make], if you could, without any machine work, and you will have a disaster.

Even items like after market intakes usually need machine work for proper fit.

You must realize we are in the performance world here, NOT the factory replacement arena.

Just so I'm not reading this wrong, you're saying that a factory replacement block, which comes off the same line as the engines that go into cars, needs to be machined before use? I find it hard to believe that a block comes from the casting plant, is sent through the automated machining process to be finished and is then machined again. The factory replacement blocks come off the same line as the production blocks. Unless they skip a step machining would be unessesary, no? I'm talking new parts though, not old.

 

[49-blues]

My 6109 short block cost $4200. which came with a new comp roller 212/212 cam and the two center billet caps, arp head/main studs -everything else on the block was machine work by a very reputable buick motor builder. so you re looking at around $3K for machining and assembly. REALITY DONE RIGHT!

 

[bison]

Just so I'm not reading this wrong, you're saying that a factory replacement block, which comes off the same line as the engines that go into cars, needs to be machined before use? I find it hard to believe that a block comes from the casting plant, is sent through the automated machining process to be finished and is then machined again. The factory replacement blocks come off the same line as the production blocks. Unless they skip a step machining would be unessesary, no? I'm talking new parts though, not old.

Yes thats correct. The decks are all over the place and the lifter bores are not consistent either. The machining on our stock blocks is not adequate for a 9 sec build.

 

[REAPER231]

yeah and after all that money is spent on the motor, now you have to upgrade your tranny , driveshaft ,rear $$$$$ , then you have to know how to tune it $$$ .

 

[BEATAV8]

Sorry you are "dismayed", but welcome to the real performance world!

Purchase a new factory replacement bare block and install your "old" parts in it [any make], if you could, without any machine work, and you will have a disaster.

Even items like after market intakes usually need machine work for proper fit.

You must realize we are in the performance world here, NOT the factory replacement arena.

Before I get too devastated here... what kind of work does a TA block typically require to make it useable for 600-800hp?

 

[BetMinesFaster]

Don't take this personal, but seeing that you are new to the board, and maybe turbo Buicks [?], you ask a question, and then "debate the answers.

We build lots of "new" blocks, Dart, indy, World, TA, and they actually take MORE machine time than a used block.

First, when a customer spends thousands of dollars to build a performance engine, ALL the details must be completely checked and brought within very close tolerances. New blocks are not machined to finish specs, as the customer and shop determine this.

Like was stated, $2000 is just a start on a 109 block, add things like a stroker, stage or alum block, oiling system mods, and it goes up fast from there.

You have a goal of mid-9's, so in a GN this equates to at least 900 HP. To do this consistently and reliably, you need to have about 1000 HP available.

This will need more than $2K worth of block work.

Opinions and comments are cheap, want some true $$$$ figures, ask the guys that have been there - mid 9's that is!.

A-men brother, could not have said it better!

 

[Nick Micale]

Before I get too devastated here... what kind of work does a TA block typically require to make it useable for 600-800hp?

Makes no difference in our build if it is 600 or 1200 HP, machine work and labor is about the same with a TA block.

The cost is a very little more in machine work and labor for a TA block over a used 109 block.

For example, a TA block has cylinder liners that initially need to be seated. The deck surface machining involves cutting alum and steel in the same pass, so this is more time consuming.

Also, with steel liners, boring [if needed] and cylinder honing is a different process than a cast iron block. This requires slightly more time.