Cold/warm starting and initial 'boost'

robertmee

Member
Joined
Oct 11, 2009
New '86 owner with the familiar mods....

A couple of 'symptoms' that I'm trying to understand. Have been searching through the archives for a couple of days so I hope I've done my due diligence and am not asking a completely obvious question.

Particulars - Ambient temperature 60 to 70 degrees (no winter here yet).

On initial crank, car fires right up. Smells a little rich if there is such a thing as it can't sit in the garage for more than a few secs before you start getting loopy. Heavy monoxide.

When running car after initial crank, no boost. Car falls on its face at WOT. Let off and ease into throttle and car will begin to build boost. Sometimes a minor puff of blue smoke but not alot.

Once this 'episode' goes by, car will seem to build boost fine at wot from that point on. Each subsequent full throttle seems to act as expected.

Once car is stopped and cut off, the next time it has more difficulty starting. Almost as if it is flooded. Might take 10 to 15 seconds of cranking before it fires. But afterwards, idles fine and no issues.

I've gone through all the scanmaster #'s and everything seems to be in order. Running about 17# boost w/ no Alky right now. No knock, O2 is good and other measurements seem to be in line. Turbo has less than 1000 miles on it.

To my uninitiated turbo buick thought process it seems like a fuel issue. Too much of it, perhaps. But it is odd that it seems to clear up after the initial failure...Maybe something with the car warming up (car runs around 120/130 initially before warming up to 160).

Please help the newb, and don't laugh too hard at me...Okay, you can laugh, but stifle it long enough to type some assistance :biggrin:
 
don't laugh too hard at me...Okay, you can laugh, but stifle it long enough to type some assistance :biggrin:

Question's that will garner lots of humor are as follows:

How do I locate my starter?
How do I check tire pressure?


Your Question does not fit into the laugh factory catagory.

I read your first post when you bought the car so if I understand, it sat for a while due to lost interest correct?

Could be stcky injectors, fill up tank and add about 4.5 oz of acetone to try and clean em out perhaps.

The Injectors could be leaking down causing hard starts lots of fumes etc.

On first start up, at 170 in park/idle whats the SM numbers reading?

First start up, write down your SM numbers and post
 
Yes, you called it correctly...Car has been infrequently used for the last 2+ years.

Numbers below....Are the Airflow readings a little low?

At first Start:

O2 390
AF 04
L8 27
Bat 13.6
Int 128
bl 140
clt 137
ATS 106
r 875
tps .40
IAC 15
PL 2.4
SP 25.3

At 170 deg

O2 500
AF 03
L8 27
Bat 13.6
Int 128
bl 140
Clt 170
Ats 106
r 875 - 900
tps .4
IAC 15
PL 2.4
SP 25.3
 
Yes, you called it correctly...Car has been infrequently used for the last 2+ years.

Numbers below....Are the Airflow readings a little low?

At first Start:

O2 390
AF 04
L8 27
Bat 13.6
Int 128
bl 140
clt 137
ATS 106
r 875
tps .40
IAC 15
PL 2.4
SP 25.3

At 170 deg

O2 500
AF 03
L8 27
Bat 13.6
Int 128
bl 140
Clt 170
Ats 106
r 875 - 900
tps .4
IAC 15
PL 2.4
SP 25.3

your AF is low
Your BL is way high...adding fuel to overcome lean condition....might have air leaking past injectors due to dry O-rings.... check for other possible air leaks...vac lines, TB gasket, Vac block gasket.

Once you get past initial inspection re post for more direction.
 
After re-looking at your Sig, you have an Extender chip. I think the AF readings on them chips are about 4 or 5, IM not sure but others will confirm or deny.
 
Yes, it is an extender....I actually found a TT chip burned for my injectors (according to the label) in the console, stored in the radio faceplate case. If possible, I'd rather get the current setup working well before I worry about swapping out chips. In a Cliff Note's version, what's the main advantage/disadvantage to the Extender vs TT?
 
Yes, it is an extender....I actually found a TT chip burned for my injectors (according to the label) in the console, stored in the radio faceplate case. If possible, I'd rather get the current setup working well before I worry about swapping out chips. In a Cliff Note's version, what's the main advantage/disadvantage to the Extender vs TT?

Both are great. Bob's chip has some neat features such as lean cruise, quick launch, security, can be tuned with versions of translators.

Erics chip (TT) adjusted with SM fuel and timing.

Anyway we'll figure out where your sucking air, pull off all vac lines and test, secure with zip ties.

Vac block is notorius for blowing gasket, loading up with oil from PCV.

you might want to fire up motor and shoot some fluid at base of injectors and see if idle picks up also squirt base of EGR and while at idle reach under EGR and squeeze the diaphram and note change.

With car at idle unplug each injector and note any change.

pretty much just standard troubleshooting for vac leaks..

stay in touch
 
Id put in the Tweak Chip.............. Your AF grams is low for idle, 4-7 is "normal". Block Learn is high, find your air leak or header leaks. HTH
 
Just out of curiosity, I'm holding a steady 18 to 20 on the vacuum gauge. Is this at all useful in determining that it is NOT a vacuum leak and should focus more on exhaust? Or is that not indicative of the health of the vacuum system?
 
Just out of curiosity, I'm holding a steady 18 to 20 on the vacuum gauge. Is this at all useful in determining that it is NOT a vacuum leak and should focus more on exhaust? Or is that not indicative of the health of the vacuum system?

check for any and all leaks, if your sucking in by the O2 then it would show lean condition and add more fuel, spool up would suffer.

Lets put it this way..the car sat pretty much for a couple of years, go through vac lines and gaskets, check for exhaust leaks as well.

check your fuel pressure, line off 42#s line on about 38.
 
check for any and all leaks, if your sucking in by the O2 then it would show lean condition and add more fuel, spool up would suffer.

Lets put it this way..the car sat pretty much for a couple of years, go through vac lines and gaskets, check for exhaust leaks as well.

check your fuel pressure, line off 42#s line on about 38.

Will do....Part of this excercise will be determining what's been abandoned and no longer used. There are a few parts on there that don't seem to be connected anymore. I found one vacuum line (I think it's vacuum) that ends up nowhere but open in the driver's side wheel well. I found another one with a tee in it, with nothing connected to the third leg, but an epoxy plug...Poor man's coupling I guess.

I'm going to take a couple of pictures to see if I can get some help identifying these things.
 
Some pics....The line leads from the box (one port open - pinkish) to the white tee (just below the breather - one leg epoxied shut) to the driver's wheel well to a valve and then the other side to nothing. Something with the EGR not right? I assume its because the chip turns that off, but to be sure, I'm asking :) (AND I plan on redoing that ground strap on the firewall).

OK, I think I'm learnin....The last 3 pics....That's the fuel vapor cannister solenoid and its supposed to be vented to atmosphere....I don't think it is supposed to just lay in there tho...Is there something it is actually supposed to be secured to?

P1020260.jpg


P1020261.jpg


P1020262.jpg


P1020263.jpg


P1020264.jpg
 
2 things...1) the "open area" that you show behind the drivers side headlight is where the fuel evaporator/charcoal cannister/thingamabob is supposed to be. That is why you have a few vacuum lines just terminating where the cannister was originally. From everything so far, it is almost certain that you have a vacuum leak somewhere. I would also not forget to validate the couplings on your intercooler and uppipe are firmly and tightly installed. Mine were too tight and there was a LITTLE leak which made my car drive like a bag of beans.
btw...I JUST replaced all my vacuum lines last night. About 2 hours start to finish. You will need 3 sizes. 7/32", 1/4" and 9/32" =)

Good luck,
NK!!
 
Robert that "ground":rolleyes: needs to be re-done. When I wiggled it the car stumbled a little. Try and fix that and see if anything changes. In the last picture that is for the Charcoal canister for the evap system, look under the car and see if he relocated it (drivers side front). As far as the EGR goes, i'm pretty sure the chip disables it, but I could be wrong.


PS. I WARNED YOU AHEAD OF TIME ABOUT THESE CARS!!!!!:eek::eek::tongue:. If you dont go to Richards let me know if you want a hand this weekend.
 
Robert that "ground":rolleyes: needs to be re-done. When I wiggled it the car stumbled a little. Try and fix that and see if anything changes. In the last picture that is for the Charcoal canister for the evap system, look under the car and see if he relocated it (drivers side front). As far as the EGR goes, i'm pretty sure the chip disables it, but I could be wrong.


PS. I WARNED YOU AHEAD OF TIME ABOUT THESE CARS!!!!!:eek::eek::tongue:. If you dont go to Richards let me know if you want a hand this weekend.

No warnings necessary....This is fun :D

Yeah, I have definite plans to fix that 'ground'....That's number one on a growing list. I did figure out the canister after googling a bit...Since the vent was going down behind the wheel well, he may very well have relocated it and the hose has come loose.

I'll let you know on Richards, but it should hopefully be a go.
 
2 things...1) the "open area" that you show behind the drivers side headlight is where the fuel evaporator/charcoal cannister/thingamabob is supposed to be. That is why you have a few vacuum lines just terminating where the cannister was originally. From everything so far, it is almost certain that you have a vacuum leak somewhere. I would also not forget to validate the couplings on your intercooler and uppipe are firmly and tightly installed. Mine were too tight and there was a LITTLE leak which made my car drive like a bag of beans.
btw...I JUST replaced all my vacuum lines last night. About 2 hours start to finish. You will need 3 sizes. 7/32", 1/4" and 9/32" =)

Good luck,
NK!!

Thanks....I probably will replace all of them to be safe. Most look to be 23 years old :)
 
I'll try to get some of my vac line out of my car. It puts normal vac line to shame. Also you can spray carb cleaner around the engine to see if the idle changes.
 
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