Classic FAST B2B not registering ESC retard

[Warp6]

Confirmed ESC Parameters as follows:
Max ESC Retard:15.00 - ESC Attack Rate:3.00 - ESC Decay Rate:1.50

Ran datalog - engine idling - TPS held open - tapped on side of knock sensor - dash mounted knock detector picked up the taps, FAST did not see tapping (no retard)

Research says FAST pin H1 is ESC.

Need guidance as how to proceed.

Thanks in advance

 

[Warp6]

Here's what I've done so far

Disconnected FAST wiring box
Disconnected Fast Track adapter box
Confirmed continuity between FAST plug H1 to adapter pin B7
There is no break in the wiring between to adapter box and FAST harness

Disconnected ESC module under hood
Confirmed continuity between ESC module harness plug pin C (yellow/black wire) and factory harness to adapter box pin B7
There is no break in the wiring between factory plug to adapter box and underhood connector to ESC module

Connected factory harness to Fast Track adapter: Confirmed continuity between underhood ESC plug pin C and FAST box harness plug pin H1(I know, I could have done this first)

I have located the spot in the harness where aftermarket knock detector is tapped into wire from B7 (yellow/black). It's about 8" up from the factory harness connector. I installed this back in '93 or so. The connection looks good.

Recap: Aftermarket knock detector sees knock - FAST does not see knock - all wiring integrity checked good

Scratching my head now...

 

[pacecarta]

contact lance

 

[Warp6]

Anyone have contact info for Lance?

 

[pacecarta]

send him a pm ( start a conversation his screen name here is Lance)

 

[Warp6]

Done. Thank you

 

[Lance]

Isolate the ESC wire to ECU (H1) and ground it to chassis with engine running. Shouldn't be connected to anything else. Should pull out all knock retard when grounded and decay back to 0 when disconnected. If it works, the problem is in wiring or something other than ECU. If this doesn't work, then likely ECU problem. I never heard of this input going bad before though.

 

[Warp6]

Thanks, I'll try it. I'll make a jumper for the connector under the hood. Seems like the easiest point. Or, is there a better way?
Also, does TPS need to be held open while idling and attaching ground?

 

[Lance]

Thanks, I'll try it. I'll make a jumper for the connector under the hood. Seems like the easiest point. Or, is there a better way?
Also, does TPS need to be held open while idling and attaching ground?

I would just like to see that ECU input isolated from whatever else is hooked to it (knock gauge, etc). TPS needs to be higher than max. TPS for Idle parameter. It should pull knock retard at idle.

 

[Warp6]

I made an underhood jumper harness for the ESC - yellow/black wire to a grounding switch. Confirmed all points connected and switch does ground when armed.

Set up the FAST datalog dash to show coolant, TPS%, ESC Rtd, Actual A/F, Spark BTDC, Air Temp, BatteryV, RPM, N20 Retard(for curiosity)

Started car, started FAST datalog, opened TPS to max, grounded switch, un-grounded switch, released TPS then shut off engine.

As I was reviewing the datalog, I double-clicked on each sensor to clean up the view - I have nothing showing for ESC Retard or N20 Retard(no surprise).
I tried to clean it up so that all I would see was TPS and ESC Retard. All that was in the main screen datalog was TPS. ESC is not there.

Does this mean this FAST box has no ESC Retard?

Note - I did not disconnect the Knock Sensor from it's tap into the yellow/black wire. Not sure at this point it matters

 

[Warp6]

Made a phone call to FAST - this box has no ESC Retard built in. Any options or is the only way XFI?

 

[Lance]

Made a phone call to FAST - this box has no ESC Retard built in. Any options or is the only way XFI?

That is not correct. I think all B2B ECUs supported ESC, and certainly all Turbo Buick specific ECUs did. What is part number and firmware listed on label?

 

[Warp6]

Part# 30122010
Firmware rev# BRB UNV_E

It was all I could do to make those numbers out. They're written with a red ballpoint that has smudged and faded

 

[Warp6]

UPDATE

I had an epiphany a little while ago and shot straight home! I made a mistake on my harness jumper, stupid.

All I did originally was add my switch in-line with the yellow/black wire from the harness to the ESC module...it was not grounded as my epiphany suggested.

Added another wire that when switched would ground the yellow/black wire to chassis.

Made sure grounding switch was off, started engine, started FAST logging, pulled TPS open, flipped the switch. I could hear the engine pull timing!

Went back and re-ran the datalog and there was the ESC Retard. You could see where it went max TPS and then a nice spike in Retard and a nice valley in total timing.

This Classic box does indeed have ESC Retard

Time to turn the boost up!

Lance, thank you!

 

[Warp6]

I can only assume the reason FAST did not see the ESC onscreen was because it was not connected with my first switch setup. It would only connect when I would flip the switch.

Anyway, this was a neat exercise and a learning experience for me. A great way to test your ESC

But....here's why I started all this. My knock detector would register knock but I wouldn't see it on my Scanmaster G. I started testing as follows:
Started engine, opened TPS, tapped side of knock sensor with a breaker bar. Knock detector would register every hit, Scanmaster G showed nothing.

Next test will be with the laptop instead of Scanmaster G

 

[Warp6]

Tested with laptop connected.

Started car, engine idling, TPS to max, tapped the knock sensor pretty hard 6 times. FAST barely saw 2 of the taps. But, it DID see it. The knock detector saw all 6 taps.

It would appear the knock detector is much more sensitive than FAST. I'm guessing a better test would be to smack the engine block with a ball peen hammer than hitting the knock sensor which is likely insulated around it's widest area (I dinged it up a little)

I guess I'll have to let FAST do it's job. Scanmaster G will likely show severe knock, at least I hope. I might try the hammer test later

 

[Lance]

B2BUNV_E.. Absolutely, positively supports ESC operation. Like I said... Isolate ESC input wire to ECU and ground it with engine running and TPS > Max. TPS for Idle parameter. If you don't register knock retard, visually inspect ECU connector and pins.

 

[Warp6]

Thank you Lance!