champion or ta performance heads?

I guess if you want actual users of the Champ heads, guess I qualify... :cool:

I began using Champion heads since the beginning, around 7-8 years, not only did I sell them, but used em before selling them. They worked awsome out of the box on a stock block, with no cracking issues..... along the way, as more of us stepped up to stage 2 motors, Tom accommodated us with some heads machined a little bit differently for more power. They were awsome, but we ran into problems with not enough material on the lower set of bolt holes. Tom has redesigned the casting at least 3-4 times that I know of, each time improving the casting until the latest casting that in the last 2 years I have made numourus low 9 and 8 second passes without any problems whatsoever. Any cracking issues we have seen occur on stage2 motors, not stock blocks. I understand as of this year, yet another beefed up casting has been delivered to the Buick market. Before anyone "tags" the Champion head as anything less than a quality head, I hope you will give credit to Tom and Champion Heads for what they have brought to the Buick market. I am sure there are hundreds of sets on the market in use today..
 
I've cracked GN1 heads with a stock block, as have others. If starting fresh, go with TA.
 
Just pulled my 8 bolt GN1's off of my stock block Limited today after 2 years of use. No cracking.
 
I have not used ta heads but I have now a set of gn1-r heads on my 4.1 and am very happy. Tom is great guy with great service. I drove him nuts calling him with issues I made for myself. He took my call every time and help me the best that he could. I will stay with a man who will stand behind his product, take care of your call and make sure your happy. And he has updated his castings. If anybody has made anything from scratch, then you will know it takes time to perfect the product. He has stood by his products and let us put input into them. I agree with Jack.
 
Ta Or Champion

I have had the pleasure of dealing with Tom. In my instance, I purchased a set of the 1st. gen. GN1s from a unscrupolus vendor who charged me twice for the same set. After fanagling with this $%%&& idiot for months I finally got my refund. I went from the 009 block to a stage block and needed to have it machined for the 14 bolts. I spoke to Tom who was very helpful and informative and sent the heads off to him. I received the heads back a few weeks later with all the work done superbly. I forgot to tell him I was swithiching to a roller cam thus the springs had to be changed. I called him again and informed him of my spring delima at which time he stated that he would send me a set of roller springs. The springs arrived a week later with no billing or shipping charge. I called him back to see what my bill was of which he replied not to worry about it. Mind you, this set was from the first run of the GN1s of which are on my Stage 2 today without any problems.

My opinion is Champions all the way based on his unbelivable customer service. Believe me, when ordering from Hawaii it gets scary dealing with some of these vendors.

My next set will definately be Champions!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
I have been running my Champions for almost 3 years with lots of abuse and no problems, 14bolt heads on a stock 109 block, cometic gaskets. Last design before they switched to the embossing on the front side of the head.
 
There are TA heads that flow over 300 on the intake and mid 250s on the exhaust. Have never seen a champ head ever come close to that. The TA heads do require more porting work as they have lots of extra material in the runners. You can raise the intake runner 5/8" with no problem and the head will flow like a fire hose. Not an option on the champs. The TA heads have a very thick deck and weigh about 6-7 lbs each more than a Champ head there is more mass should be much stronger. 1.550 valve spring makes them an easy head to select springs for. You will pay more for a TA head no doubt.
 
JCotton said:
I guess if you want actual users of the Champ heads, guess I qualify... :cool:

I began using Champion heads since the beginning, around 7-8 years, not only did I sell them, but used em before selling them. They worked awsome out of the box on a stock block, with no cracking issues..... along the way, as more of us stepped up to stage 2 motors, Tom accommodated us with some heads machined a little bit differently for more power. They were awsome, but we ran into problems with not enough material on the lower set of bolt holes. Tom has redesigned the casting at least 3-4 times that I know of, each time improving the casting until the latest casting that in the last 2 years I have made numourus low 9 and 8 second passes without any problems whatsoever. Any cracking issues we have seen occur on stage2 motors, not stock blocks. I understand as of this year, yet another beefed up casting has been delivered to the Buick market. Before anyone "tags" the Champion head as anything less than a quality head, I hope you will give credit to Tom and Champion Heads for what they have brought to the Buick market. I am sure there are hundreds of sets on the market in use today..
Click to expand...



I've had a set of these new castings on my car for over a year now and did some of the initial testing on them for Champion. I have many 8.90-9.0 passes on them without fail and really don't believe they will fail and I've cracked 2 previous sets well beyond this point.

Tom is a first rate vendor and has gone out of his way for me and has given a lot back to the Buick community not with just products but he also sponsors many of the race classes including the TSO point series.

The GN1's I have now are also the best flowing stock port head I've had and I've owned both. Comparing the two showed equal peak flow numbers @ .600 but had significantly better low and mid range flow numbers over a stock port configuration TA head flowed on the same bench same day. Raising the port on the TA head is said to produce better results but I haven't played with a set, yet and I know of a few TA heads that are said to have eclipsed the 300cfm mark with the raised runner but again I haven't seen a set. If you are looking for the best flowing Buick head none of them will beat a S2.

In the end you probably can't go wrong with either head. I chose to stick with Champion because of vendor support.
 
If you need to raise this issue then you should keep in mind when comparing the two that if 15 cfm is what your after then I guess ta will win this fight. But if you are a guy wanting to get a good set of heads for his strip/street car then I would say that champion has the set your looking for. Like we have been saying, Tom is a stand up guy providing for us. We are a small group, but he treats us like we buy millions from him. I will buy from a person he loves these cars as much as of us!!!
 
champion

Never used either, however, I just picked up my new set of GN1's this after noon from Full Throttle and torqued them down with the RJC bulletproof gasket kit. They were on order for months, but I'm sure they will be worth the wait! Thanks Mike!!
 
JCotton said:
I have made numourus low 9 and 8 second passes without any problems whatsoever. Any cracking issues we have seen occur on stage2 motors, not stock blocks.
Click to expand...


We have seen a couple crack on stock blocks. When making BIG power things happen though. Tom has been a great vendor and I appreciate all he has done for the Buick market and it is promising even a better set of heads are coming out.
 
I have a TA 14 bolt aluminium block with M&A aluminium heads but I haven't been to the track yet to see how it will run...:rolleyes:

Claude;)
 
I run Champion irons I got from Tom. He was absolutely great to deal with. My application was mostly street with some strip time. I wanted GN1's but Tom talked me into irons based on my goals. I have about 600 miles on them with no problems and a couple of 23lb boost runs. I have never dealt with Nick before but heard he is a good guy too. I hope to buy a set of his headers one day.
 
it seems at the moment the TA's are just a little better and for what im looking to do in the range of 7-800 hp right now seems the better bet along with being a little beefer and also the ability to run a wider ratio or rockers. plus they will go with the TA block down the road. thanks to all of your comments.
 
turbobuick said:
The GN1's I have now are also the best flowing stock port head I've had and I've owned both. Comparing the two showed equal peak flow numbers @ .600 but had significantly better low and mid range flow numbers over a stock port configuration TA head flowed on the same bench same day.
Click to expand...

Chris Let me help you clarify. The TA heads you tested were Stock TA heads with bowl clean up and 2.02 intake valve and next to no porting. They can be purchased by anyone. I know what they were you bought them from me. Your champs are new race castings (1 of maybe 2 or 3 sets) with the ports hammered for all they are worth. They should flow better than your example TA heads. Some $$$ and anyone can own a set of 300cfm TA heads.

Please tell the story about your 1 year old cracked Champ heads that were flowed v/s a set of 1.94 small valve TA heads that were worked a little harder than the ones in your example. Maybe Steve H. can post about his great service from Champion on his Champ head repair. The champ heads are good heads and if you want to buy a head out of a box and bolt them on the champ wins hands down. If you want a strong head to max out flow. The TA head wins hands down. They both have thier place in the Buick world. I use both TA and the Champs but prefer the TA for a race engine and the Champs for direct bolt with no hassles.
 
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