Car tracks very bad....help

[CanVan87GN]

Hello fellow GN owners. This may be a simple fix or as I have found out with these cars, it may be GN specific.
The problem is, my car tracks very bad. I mean very bad I have done the alignment, lower ball joints, drop spindles, springs, shocks, and aligned again. Now my mechanic has said that the centre link has a bit of play and the steering box is the original. Now I said "All I have to do is fix these problems,eh?" My mechanic then said it may be more than that or the problem is more serious. Possibly body mounts or other worn parts. What do you think Any help would be appreciated. Cheers!

 

[rastaz]

What is your wheel and tire combo? Some lightweight wheels with fat tires on them like to track into the truck grooves on the road.

 

[KEVINS]

you could have a 4-wheel alignment done to see how square the chassis is..

ks

 

[BLACK6PACK]

Wide tires track bad!! My brothers 97SS camaro is all over the place with 245s all the way around.

 

[CanVan87GN]

I got 265/50/15 on the rear and 215/60/15 up front. I have done a 4 wheel alignment and I will check the results. Would the rear tires hurt tracking that bad? Could the body mounts hurt as well? Cheers!

 

[BLACK6PACK]

I've got 215s on the front and 275s on the back and I've never had a problem with tracking, even with 205,000 miles on the odo. I just dropped a bundle ($$$) on the front end though.

 

[salvageV6]

I bought a GN last year that wanders a bit and oversteers some. You are always fighting the wheel a bit with no true center.

I put the big Nittos out back no difference.

Had all the control arm bushings done and a full alignment.

Still sucks. I kinda hate the car mostly for this reason.

I would like to know what else to replace here....

114K miles. GN wheels.

What do bad ball joints do to ya???

 

[CanVan87GN]

Hey salvageV6. I have done the lower but not the upper ball joints. They apparently were OK. Maybe I should just do the steering box and center link We'll see. I'm still working on it because it is the only thing I really don't like about my car now. Cheers!b

 

[Nick Micale]

First thing I would do is check very carefully the wheelbase measurement on BOTH sides. We found out on a 10 sec. car in Bowling Green that it was hopping around on launch. He had 1-1/2" difference in wheelbase plus some other problems.

The dropped spindles would certainly be suspect as the only GN I have driven with them handled like a pig!

 

[salvageV6]

If/When you find your problem post back, mine is driving me crazy, errr crazier...

 

[UNGN]

Upper bushings are the biggest contributors to wander. The bushing under the downpipe gets smoked and the car gets a mind of its own. After you replace the upper bushings, have the alignment shop put in more caster (move the upper ball joint rearward in relation to the frame), the realign the toe. This should keep the car going in one direction.

 

[Berman]

Originally posted by salvageV6
I put the big Nittos out back no difference.

Nitto drag radials? Heh, those'll make your car wander all over the road. I've been running them for a long time on my TA, but I remember when I first got them I noticed the car wanders around the road a lot more than it used to. It used to be rock solid, you could let go of the wheel and it would stay straight always. Not so with the nittos. I attribute this to the fact that you can't balance drag-radials (can't balance anything where the sidewall changes, heh).

 

[salvageV6]

Like I said Nittos didn't help or hurt the problem with the GN.

On my decently tracking WE4 daily driver even with 5 accidents the Nittos were far better in handling than my previous snow tires.

I don't think it's the Nittos, my problem is having to constantly tweak the wheel to keep the car straight.

Bushings are fine and replaced under 1K miles ago.

I will check the measurements each side. TIA

 

[MAP]

Greetings,

Two other factors to consider:

1.) Steering box play. This can be a huge factor in front-end wander. Start by adjusting the preload hex-key bolt (LH thread, I believe, working against a jam-nut) until play is minimized - but do this carefully and slowly, driving the car after every 30 degrees or so of preload adjustment. If the steering gets "sticky," then back-off the preload by 15 degrees or so, and test again.

There's at least one additional preload adjustment on the Saginaw 650/800 box, but unless you're very familiar with these units, I'd go to a profressional at that point. Or consider to buy a new/refurbished one - there are several sources for these, such as Guldstrandt engineering.

2.) Front-end scrub radius. The scrub radius is the distance between a point defined by the intersection of the steering-knuckle pivot axis, and the ground - with the center of the tire's contact patch (more precisely, the centroid of the force exerted by the ground on the tire, without any acceleration of the car, and on level ground.) For the stock design, this is about 3-1/2", which is considered to be very large. In effect, as the tire travels over bumps, the fore-aft forces exerted on the tire act on this moment arm and thus create a torque which tends to disturb the car's direction of motion. (For front-wheel drive cars, this accounts for the dreaded "torque-steer" phenomenon.)

The greater the scrub radius, the greater this "upsetting torque," thus creating a greater tendency toward wander. The key here is *always minimize the scrub radius.* This is accomplished by using rims with as large a backspacing as possible.

HTH,
MAP

 

[GNVAIR]

I agree with MAP on the issue of the steering box. I might also add to check the pot joint in the steering shaft as I noticed a lot of slop/wander in my steering wheel. This joint is a plunge joint much like a cv joint on a fwd car. The problem is GM used plastic for the blocks inside and these plastic blocks wear and cause a tremedous amount of slop. The best thing to do is to replace the entire shaft with a new one OR to install borgeson joints.
The other thing is to remove your steering box and properly reset the preload on the bearings and on the gears. An excellent article is provided by Jeff Davidson (whom I hold the utmost respect for his ingeniuity) http://www.monte-list.nu/tech/boxmesh.shtml
Most people (inlcuding myself) will rebuild their front end with the best pieces and neglect the steering box and shaft. These are very critical to proper tracking. I agree with setting the preload off the car as too much will cause the wheel to stick at the on center point.

 

[CanVan87GN]

I have done the shaft and will look at the steering box tomorrow. I'll keep everyone posted

 

[dgreene]

After you replace the upper bushings, have the alignment shop put in more caster (move the upper ball joint rearward in relation to the frame), the realign the toe. This should keep the car going in one direction.

I agree with UnGN on that. Caster is one of the things that alot of shops seem not to give a crap about, at least around here. I've had to stand over their shoulders before to make them set it. If if touches the green, they let it go, even if one was to the front and the other to the rear, if it was in the green, it was just fine. Just check everything to make sure that everything is tight and there is no play in the steering box or other steering related parts and then take it to the alignment shop and stand there and watch them set it. Alot of G body cars like a little extra caster.

Good luck

 

[BEATAV8]

My high mileage T has an old ATR traction kit in the rear, which relocates the mounting points of the lower control arms relative to the axle. The brackets in the kit are "slightly" adjustable and can be used to lengthen or shorten the relative lower control arm length. I've used this to modify and correct my "dog tracking" problems. Not sure if these kits are available from ATR anymore.

 

[Berman]

Wow this is turning out to be a really good thread. I hope the threads like this get archived?

 

[The Radius Kid]

I just went through what you're going through now.
What happened was I preloaded the right rear air bag to 40 lbs for better traction.
Bear in mind,the front end was checked and new boxed and measured control arms were installed.
I drove to Bowling Green and what an evil handling car.Always fighting a left pull.Wore the outside shoulder on my driver's front tire.
Try to stop and the car would snake.Pulling left then right.
I lowered the right rear bag pressure to 25 lbs,and Voila!Everything works great now.
The point I'm making is that sometimes the rear suspension[as Nick also stated],can have a profound effect on how the car tracks.
Are the rear shocks softies for racing?How are the trailing arm bushings out back?Upper and lower.Are they in good shape?
Rear springs good?
This can all affect how your car behaves.