Car is twisting - dont want a cage

[11secondgs]

Guys - I am starting to make some pretty good power. I have installed all the kirbans braces, etc....

I still think I need some sort of additional crossmember or something to keep the car strait on hard launches.

I dont want a cage. What are guys doing to help assist with the twisting these things make from the torque?
I was going to install a wolf craft anti-roll bar which might help to some degree? Any other ideas?

Not sure how much longer my passenger quarter panel is gonna hold up, there are already plenty of cracks and stress marks. This is a sunroof car 87 we4.
Thanks

 

[boostingbuick]

Replacing the stock rubber body bushing with poly bushings will help alot. A big rear sway bar helps as well.

 

[Gary Wells]

Before arriving at any rasy decisions you might want to look into a 1 piece front lower frame bar as made & sold by Savitske Classic & Custom as it might be a tad stronger than the normal 3 piece design, and (2) you might want to query some of the peeps running Paul Ferry's HRParts&Stuff's rear anti-sway bar. I have heard very good things about both of those products.

 

[Alky V6]

A X-frame member would help a bunch if no roll cage is used.

 

[Tony Shoaff]

HR bar I installed keeps my car from twisting. My car was still twisting even with a cage and after I saw some quarter panels buckle last year @ Bowling Green I purchased the HR bar and the problem was solved. Good Luck hope that helps.

 

[Alky V6]

A sway bar is going to help hold the rear axle housing to frame relationship, but will do nothing to stop frame and body twist forward of the lower control arm mounting at the frame to the engine mounts. It's the twisting that happens in that forward area that causes the cracking at the area you're concerned about. The problem is the open frame area (C channel) in the mid section of the car. Without strengthening that area with a roll cage, a X frame member is the only way that I can see to strengthen that mid section. You could also try closing that C channel and boxing it in to strengthen it.

 

[Tony Shoaff]

Just stating the facts. I have pictures that show the difference from no bar to the HR Bar. Sorry Donnie.

 

[Alky V6]

No need to be sorry. We're just focusing on two different problems.

 

[HRpartsNstuff]

Actually you are both kinda correct on this. Our swaybar will take a LOT of the stress out of the body, because it controls the body roll from getting out of hand & stressing related components. For most cars that "twist" off the line & the airbags are pumped way up & still not doing it, our swaybar fixes it almost 100%.

For the guys who keep adding the power & head into the 9's & faster, then the rest of the frame becomes over-stressed & relates into buckeled 1/4 panels etc. ANY kind of bracing will help, and unfortunately if going that fast, a cage is not only really needed, it's kinda silly to not have one. Your life is worth WAY more than any car out there, and safety should come first!

The one brace we have found to keep the 1/4 panels from going, and are needed even more on cars with notched frames, is this:

At the forward end of the lower control arms, you need to basically connect them from side to side. Kinda think of the transmission crossmember, but installed towards the rear instead of the middle of the car. I have seen some that incorporate a rear d-shaft loop as well, and some that have to dodge exhaust.

Our 0251 frame brace kit helps a LOT too, but at some level (hard launches & heavy cars) the frame will tip in & twist without additional bracing. Even though boxing the frame rails is a good idea & helps, it won't stop those forward mounting points on the lowers from moving so far they buckle the body.

Basically this is more for FAST cars that MUST have a cage in to race anyway. Our bar & brace kit & other mods usually work perfect for cars in the high 10's & slower. On faster ones, you got to pay a little more attention to bracing.

Hope that helps!!!

 

[11secondgs]

Paul -

Nice Post. What is the price?

 

[HRpartsNstuff]

Paul -

Nice Post. What is the price?

Our swaybar is $489 for std axle/rear setups, and $10-20 more for 9" applications. There are cheaper ones out there, and you pretty much get what you pay for. We have added little things to improve or kit over the past 2 years, and still holding our 2006 price. We have had several price increases on our end, and probably have to up the price a bit on next catalog reprint (coming soon). Bottom line, it's one of the most dramatic differences you can make to the car for that kind of price range. Never take it back off, unless you sell the car & want to keep it

Our frame brace kit is $45. It's a 3 pc (each side) and a weld-in cnstruction. Only way to really reinforce those brackets correctly, and gives a nice clean look too.

It's all on our website if you want to look at other products too. Just check out the PRICING/ORDER section. Technically can't order off the site right now, but fixing that issue. For more INFO, check out the PRODUCTS section.

 

[dwkohout]

I put solid body bushings in my street car from http://www.haulin-ass-motorsports.com/products.html .

 

[69GS400s]

Hey Guys - I just installed the HR bar on my stock-body 4100# 69 GS400 Convert because Im getting way too much twist and I dont want to turn my car into a pretzel ... and dont plan on putting a bar in it. It only see's the track 2-3 times a year ...

The install was basically painless, parts were of OUTSTANDING quality and the instructions made it a no-brainer. If you can use a tape measure, do simple math and drill a hole you'll have absolutely no problems installing it.

I have friends with low 10 second GS's that looked like they were going to twist the car in half - installed the HR bar and the car now not only leaves straight and level, but dropped the 60' times a few tenths

Hope this helps ... Here's a pic of last years launch after changing from 3.08 gears to 3.31's and putting a 3000 rpm stall in place of a 2500. Im hoping the bar takes alot of the twist out of my launch. This was not a good air day - everyone was off about 2 tenths and I picked up almost 3 tenths with the mods ... hoping for another 2-3 tenths with good air and putting more power into going foward instead of twisting. Only other suspension mods are Metco upper and lowers in the rear. I'll post results after I get it on the track again with the HR bar