Car died and won't start....ignition?

[murphster]

My T died on me today and now won't start. I gone through some checks after reading the no start procedures and so far I'm leaning towards ignition. Haven't ruled out a crank/cam sensor yet though.

First thing I tried was resetting the ECM, then trying a different chip. Checked the fuses and all were good. I also unplugged the MAF but that didn't help. I noticed there was fuel pressure present and after sitting awhile and letting it go down, it goes back up to normal when I try to start it. Listening to it crank, it sounds normal so I'm thinking its not anything serious like timing chain jumped and such.

I hooked Turbolink up and all the data seems normal. No codes and temps are reading normal, TPS reads normal, no clear flood. I did notice that there is no rpm when I try to start the car though. I then checked spark and I'm getting no spark from all the wires.

I need to get a noid light but I did verify 12V+ on an injector plug. I was using a crappy little multimeter that was too slow to respond to pulsing so I want to verify that the injectors are pulsing with a noid light. Since I am getting a voltage, I don't know if that rules out crank or cam sensor or if I need to verify its pulsing. I assume if the injector harness was bad or something was loose that wouldn't explain why I'm not getting spark.

So I figure its ignition module/coil pack, but I'm not sure what the no rpm on startup means or if I definitely need to verify that the injectors are pulsing even though I know they are getting 12V+. Hopefully I'll find a noid light tomorrow and verify that the injectors are indeed pulsing and not stuck at 12V+. If the injectors are pulsing my understanding is that the ECM is receiving good cam/crank sensor data and that would rule them out and leave the ignition as the culprit.

So, does my reasoning seem right? Anything else I should check?

(Edit: maybe this should have been in tech area.....oops)

 

[Nick Micale]

Do not rule out the crank sensor or signal with a no-spark condition.

 

[roderick]

i changed my timing cover gasket and now i have the same problem i just put in a new crank sensor and still no spark. how do i check the came sensor.

 

[Dan Thompson]

The cam sensor has a cup inside the top. The cap has a pickup sensor that looks for the window in the cup.

There is a little 'pin' on the cup that locks the cup to the cam sensor. Sometimes the pin breaks off and causes this type of problem.

The cups are available from one of the vendors, he is outside of Salt Lake City to the West. I can't remember his name.

Also the crank sensor, which was my problem, cause the problem your describing. www.casperselectronics.com has new crank sensors.

 

[murphster]

Update

Well, tried the Noid light today and nothing. So now I'm figuring crank sensor.

I got some goodies in the mail today so now I can test a few things. I have a new crank sensor and I'll change that first and see what happens. I also have the camfix thing so I can see if the cam sensor is the problem. Also have a new ignition module and coil pack. If none of those things work then I'll figure some sort of loose wire somewhere or something grounding out.

I pulled the oil cap and saw the rocker arm moving, so I can rule out timing chain. I didn't think that was the problem, but still nice to see.

 

[murphster]

Think I found the problem

 

[Dan Thompson]

Looks dirty

 

[jpratt]

That must be the porblem.. Dirt on an engine is very bad, also oil leaks will keep an engine from running

 

[pacecarta]

dont know about the dirt but it looks like to me like one of the sensor towers is missing , how does the crank ring look ?
if balancer is wobbly it wont be long before the new one goes

steve woods vottex buick site has some good pics of the installed sensor

 

[Dan Thompson]

Yes, the center sensor 'towers' is missing.

This is what it should look like

https://www.casperselectronics.com/...creen=PROD&Product_Code=107111&Category_Code=

 

[murphster]

Originally posted by pacecarta
dont know about the dirt but it looks like to me like one of the sensor towers is missing

Yeah, I was thinking it was pretty obvious for those who know what they look like. I was unsuccessfully trying to be sarcastic.

Originally posted by pacecarta
how does the crank ring look ? if balancer is wobbly it wont be long before the new one goes

I have it running now. But I can't seem to get the adjustment quite right. Runs kind of rough. I've tried moving it a little to see if it helps, but no luck yet. The ring could be wobbling around.

Thanks for noticing the dirt, everyone. I had a couple small oil leaks that i fixed a couple months ago. From the top the engine is nice and clean, but still all kinds of gook underneath.

 

[pacecarta]

did you find it with the tower cracked or did it break off on removal?

you should rotate the engine by hand (ecm disconnected) and check the clearance at a couple of points to see it the crank ring is true .
as long as it isnt dragging on the new sensor it should work ,i think clearance is supposed to be .025. As far as i know it doesnt matter where the ring passes through the towers (the two furthest from the connector end ) and .025 allows for it to be centered.

i dont carry a spare crank sensor , guess i should pick one up .
time to hit the yards again ,i think they are the same on the 3.0 and 3.8 SFI FWD cars.

 

[murphster]

It was already broken off before I removed it.

 

[murphster]

Another Update

I think I need a new harmonic balancer.

I've been busy, but I finally decided to take my car to a mechanic friend right down the road to take a better look on the lift to see what was up. Turns out one of the fins was bent a little. He was able to straighten it out and get it adjusted good.

The car started perfectly and was running great, but after about 10 minutes the car starting running rough again. Did the same thing this morning. My best guess is the once the engine heats up, the metal fins expand just a little, or whatever, and throws the alignment off just enough. Looks like when the cranks sensor broke, for whatever reason, one of the fins smacked the middle tower and now is damaged beyond repair.

So, where's the best place to get a harmonic balancer? ASAP would be best.

In the meantime, I think I'm going to have my new drag shocks, front springs, and control arms put on. Hopefully I'll be able to get a couple runs in on the track before winter is fully upon us.

 

[pacecarta]

dorman makes balancers and they are cheap (around 70 bucks) but they dont list one for the turbo

tried searching and aside from gm i cant locate any other source .
GM PART # 25523503
CATEGORY: Engine Crankshaft and Camshaft Balancer
PACK QTY: 1 CORE CHARGE: $0.00
GM LIST: $199.97
OUR PRICE: $113.98
DESCRIPTION: BALANCER

post on parts wanted ,or contact the parts guys direct, maybe mike mccoy or brian weavy have a known good used one laying around .

 

[murphster]

Thanks a bunch.... I called the local dealer and verified the part#. They can overnight it for extra $20. I guess I can wait and see if there are any alternatives though. I'm not sure if I should just get the GM one to be safe, or what. I'd like to have it within a couple days, at most. I'd love to see what the car does in the cool weather.